Decoding Enneagram Typing With Kellie Artis
Enneagram typing can be tricky for people in the military lifestyle. The frequent relocation, changes to plans, and being separated from your spouse can make you look like an Enneagram type you may not recognize. But that’s also not a bad thing, funnily enough. It’s a learning tool in of itself!
This is why me and my guest, Kellie Artis, love the enneagram framework! You always have a core type, which never changes, but as we move through life’s stressors, our strategies change, and learning which traits and characteristics you take on during troubling times can be incredibly useful for you and your relationships. Using the enneagram system as a way to foster better communication with our communities is what Kellie and I aim for!
Kellie Artis is a communications professional who specializes in producing authentic and engaging content for veteran and military spouse audiences. As the Communications Director at Virtual Veterans Communities, she's working to improve educational experiences for military-connected students through digital community building and virtual event production. Her work as an advocate for veteran and active-duty families at MILLIE continues to help alleviate the stress of frequent relocations on military families.
In this episode, we’ll be diving into enneagram typing and how it can help milspouses and service members better communicate their needs.
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Never without a passion project or side hustle, Kellie also freelances as a remote live stream producer, video editor, and content strategist. She's also pursuing a Narrative Enneagram Teacher Certification through The Narrative Enneagram, with plans to use this powerful self-discovery tool to help the military spouse community. Her volunteer experience includes nonprofit board service with the Military Family Advisory Network and Sweet Tea Shakespeare.
A native of South Carolina, Kellie earned a bachelor's degree in communications from the College of Charleston. She's currently living in Fayetteville, NC with her active-duty husband - stationed at Fort Bragg - and two children.
Find Kellie in all the places:
Website: Kellie.bio.link
IG: @keliliz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kartis
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The Heart of a Milspouse Podcast is hosted by Jayla Rae Ardelean, Milspouse Mentor, Speaker, and Writer.
Grab your ♥️free♥️ resources here: jaylarae.com
Let's chat! @mil.spouse
Check out Jayla Rae’s Free Enneagram goal-setting guide here! jaylarae.com/enneagram-guide
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TRANSCRIPT: Decoding Enneagram Typing with Kellie Artis
[00:00:00] Jayla Rae: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the heart of a podcast. Today's episode is with a very special guest. I am joined by Kellie. Kelly. Hi. Would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:00:13] Kellie: Hey, thanks so much for having me. Hey you guys. My name is Kelly Artis. I am here because of our shared obsession with the Enneagram and then also because of my connection to the military. I am also, I. A spouse. I've been married to my soldier for, shoot, 16, I think years. It's not a big one, so I kinda lose count.
[00:00:36] Kellie: we've been together for more than 20 though, and have been, I have been a part of this lifestyle for more years than I care to count at this point. We are fast approaching retirement, and I guess that puts me in that lump. Of, seasoned spouse category. so I'm sure I will have at least some experiences to share today.
[00:00:55] Kellie: potentially some advice, give it or take it or leave it. And, also professionally, I [00:01:00] work in the field of communications, so you'll see me kind of sprinkled about the internet in different ways. but mostly I use those skill sets to communicate to military audiences.
[00:01:10] Jayla Rae: And she's incredible. And if you've been around for a while, you've probably seen Kelly teach something at some event, whether that is the Enneagram or something else. She's around on the internet streets. So, one of the reasons why I wanted to bring Kelly on today is because, well, as Enneagram teachers, we are obsessed with breaking down this framework in easy, approachable ways, and especially for military spouses because we both have seen the value in our own lives using this system. And then especially, what can happen when a military spouse actually adopts this framework and dives headfirst into learning about their personality? Something we had talked about offline is basically, [00:02:00] How your personality can shape your military life experience, whether you know that or not, and so much to do with how we react to the circumstances of military life.
[00:02:14] Jayla Rae: Goes back to our personalities. So we're basically here to nerd out together, and like Kelly said, she's here to share any wisdom that she can impart because she's been doing this for so long. So thanks for being here.
[00:02:31] Kellie: So excited.
[00:02:32] Kellie: You guys just hang tight. We'll, we'll get through it.
[00:02:36] Jayla Rae: I know we have a we
[00:02:37] Kellie: Jayla Rae and I are gonna have a good time.
[00:02:42] Jayla Rae: Yes, and we had a chat actually earlier this week and I, Kelly, I wish we had just recorded that chat cuz I found that like, well life, life-giving for me personally, but also, just so it was so honest. And so I'm just kind of hoping that we can [00:03:00] bring some of those themes back and re-discuss, I suppose.
[00:03:05] Kellie: totally.
[00:03:06] Jayla Rae: Okay, so let's talk about the usefulness of the Enneagram for military spouses. So, like I said, I think it shapes a lot of our military life experience. How do you see military spouses using the Enneagram? Like is it for fun? Is it for the serious shit? Is it for everything? Like, how do you view it?
[00:03:29] Kellie: Well, here's how I view it, and then there's also how. I think it should be used. There's also how it is often used, right? Those are probably three separate conversations. I will tell you, I'll share how I use it, personally, how I came to find it and why I think it struck such a nerve and such a chord with me.
[00:03:46] Kellie: and, and hopes that this will help sort of inspire others, to take a closer look at the system as well. So, I came across the Enneagram about eight years ago, and like most people have always been kind [00:04:00] of obsessed with myself. I mean, everyone's a bit of a narcissist. Let's just all agree that that's the starting point here.
[00:04:06] Jayla Rae: We all have those traits. Yes.
[00:04:08] Kellie: Everyone. Yeah, let's talk about me. but you know, I've always loved personality typologies, Myers Briggs, all of the things. And an actually fun story got almost kicked out of a strong bonds event once with a chaplain running the five love languages. And I love the love languages, I think they're great in concept, but my questioner tendencies started to try to rip apart the system and find the holes in that system.
[00:04:32] Kellie: and just thinking a little too deeply in it. And the chaplain asked me to stop. asking questions because I was like, I was showing all the holes in it, mainly because I was having a hard time and still always have had a hard time, adapting a personality typology or accepting a label, right?
[00:04:51] Kellie: And extricating my role. From the personality, cuz I didn't feel like my role should play a part [00:05:00] in the personality. And I'm specifically talking about my role as a military spouse here. We all have conflicting, you know, thoughts and opinions about what that role should look like. But I think what happens is we get too overly identified with the role and then these personality typology labels, that we lose our agency in it.
[00:05:17] Kellie: Right. And we're kind of attached to it and sort of, if anything happens to disrupt those labels or those, those, those roles, those identities, we feel really lost. And I think that's what often happens in this lifestyle by nature of the lifestyle, because we have to pack up an uproot every couple of years, or we're dealing with, you know, all of the various stressors in our life.
[00:05:38] Kellie: So all of that to say, I've always kind of looked at these systems a little critically, a little, you know, like, Hmm, okay, you can't. I'm not sure I'm buying that fully. The Enneagram felt like it just kind of smacked me in the face and knocked me over. It had this way of, kind of like seeing directly into my soul and sort of offending me in ways that [00:06:00] I was not accustomed to, like having reactions about, you know, like how did you know that?
[00:06:05] Kellie: And I'm kind of personifying it here, but like, It's eerie how deep. And the reason is because it strikes at something that none of the other systems do. It actually touches on our very core essence, right, of what have we been protecting since we were itty
[00:06:24] Kellie: bitty? You know,
[00:06:26] Kellie: What have we been hiding?
[00:06:27] Kellie: This is like innermost fear? Motivation. You know what's driving us? And oftentimes we don't have the luxury of really liking. Diving into that and investigating that. So sometimes it's even confusing when we're confronted with it, like, why am I reacting to this type of description in the way that I am? Right. So, you know, all of that to say, I feel like it cuts through a lot of the noise of our
[00:06:52] Kellie: life. And gets right to the meat of, of who we feel like we are. And so rarely do we feel like [00:07:00] we are actually seen in that way. so I think it's just so powerful and it's not just a label or like a thing that you can wear. It's actually a really awesome roadmap of like navigating, kind of just getting to your highest self.
[00:07:15] Kellie: so
[00:07:15] Kellie: yeah,
[00:07:16] Kellie: that's, that's why I think everyone should just be as obsessed as we are, but that's just my
[00:07:20] Jayla Rae: Well, who's not gonna be obsessed after that description? My goodness. That was beautiful and I totally agree that we don't always get the luxury to dive in super deep into ourselves and expand our level of self-awareness, in this lifestyle in particular because we get so much thrown at us.
[00:07:45] Jayla Rae: And I think one of the things you and I talked about is that. I think that a group like military spouses probably has a harder time typing themselves because when they're experiencing a [00:08:00] huge amount of stress, you take on the traits and characteristics of another type that is not your core primary type, and you borrow that because it's a defense mechanism.
[00:08:11] Jayla Rae: You're, you're trying to defend yourself against the world basically. And. It can get so confusing because that doesn't feel like who you are. That feels like a response, but it doesn't necessarily feel like the identity, the strings of identity that you mentioned, that like the Enneagram will just strike all those chords if you're reading the right description if you're going to the right person, and if you're actually spending time with the system, that is what it's designed to do.
[00:08:42] Jayla Rae: And I love that you said, you know, you felt a little. Defensive in the beginning reading about your description or what was the word that you used? maybe not defensive, but more like, wait, ew. Offended. Thank you. Yeah,
[00:08:55] Jayla Rae: yeah,
[00:08:56] Jayla Rae: yeah. And I love that we're both on the same page about [00:09:00] that because guys if you're out there and you're reading an enneagram description, and it does not.
[00:09:06] Jayla Rae: Offend you on some level or it doesn't hurt like I like to say, or it doesn't like it doesn't scratch at some like deep thing that you thought it was. You know, on the surface, but really it's super hidden and everything clicks. Like if you're not having that response, you might be in the wrong place.
[00:09:26] Jayla Rae: Like it might not even be your type at all, because that's part of the process is feeling so on edge, reading it and thinking like, how did this person know all of this information about me?
[00:09:41] Kellie: Yeah, I, I would just love to add to that, and this has taken me a while to sort of wrap my head around like, we think, oh, you know, it's the junk in your trunk. It's the stuff you're trying to hide. You guys, it's not stuff that we're conscious of that we're hiding, so that's why it gets really tricky, right?
[00:09:54] Kellie: You just, you're like, that's not me. Or maybe someone. Commits the ultimate faux pa and like [00:10:00] casually types you at a cocktail party. Oh, you must be a “blank,” right? Cuz they think they know the Enneagram because they've followed all the Instagram accounts and have these really cliche-level stereotypical ideas of what the Enneagram is.
[00:10:13] Kellie: So another thing that I wanted to add to the whole conversation around like understanding your typing and landing on your type. First of all, you guys, sometimes it takes a while. There are some of the more assertive numbers on the Enneagram that are like, whoop, yep, that's me, right? Then there are some that actually part of their coping mechanism, Jay LaRay might be like refusing to accept that anyone could possibly see and accept. And understand who they are and, and nail their personality or be typed even at all. I'm talking specifically
[00:10:46] Jayla Rae: Because I'm so unique. Hello?
[00:10:50] Kellie: Our lovely type four. So they're literally defending against the action of being typed. So, but one thing that I've, I've kind of, that's been helping me sort of [00:11:00] like understand this, this barrier, this block. I've had the opportunity to type a couple of actual service members, which has been so fun.
[00:11:08] Kellie: But, Usually if it weren't, if it wasn't, like, if it's not eight or three, they don't wanna hear it, right? Because it just does it's counters as sort of the military culture and like the, the atypical, you know, soldier, airmen, whatever, you know, that that is supposed to be presented, the Type A, right? so I had to get down with this one person, like, okay.
[00:11:26] Kellie: He's like, no, no, no, I don't like that one. It makes me sound weak or it makes me sound ex-fill-in-the-blank. I'm like, okay, but do you realize that your type structure is actually doing what? It's. Been formed to do, like your ego is defending against this idea of being typed in a way because you feel like you don't have control over what's happening and you don't have control over the perception of who you are.
[00:11:50] Kellie: It was really fascinating. I'm still not sure if he ended up getting there, but, it was a fun practice. So yeah, spend, spend as much time with it as you need.[00:12:00] and then you're right. I think stress definitely plays a part in it. It's really easy to practice sort of self-reflection and like, Calmly, sort of plunge the depths of your innermost self and feelings and thoughts and, and, sensations.
[00:12:18] Kellie: when everything is calm and, and life is cool and there's nothing going on, but how often do we have that opportunity? It takes, it takes a lot of intention, and free time truthfully, to get
[00:12:30] Kellie: there. so it's something that you have to, like actively do. Yeah.
[00:12:34] Jayla Rae: Yeah. And I, I think the, you know, going back to if things are not calm in your life right now, and so it's, it's kind of hard to see. Through the weeds in that case. I actually think that that can be a really powerful teaching moment. But on the other side of that, If you have mistyped yourself due to a ton of stress going on in your life and it's just not, it's just [00:13:00] not hitting, or maybe you are taking one of those free random quizzes and it's picking up on all the stressors instead of the core and the, and the fear and the motivations and things.
[00:13:11] Jayla Rae: and I don't recommend tests for that reason, but anyway, If you, if
[00:13:16] Kellie: Yeah. Agreed.
[00:13:17] Jayla Rae: as your, as your stress number, let's say, and you read the description and you're like, Ugh, that doesn't sound like me. Like, sure, that sounds like me right now, but that doesn't really sound like me. And then you ditch the system and you're like, you know what?
[00:13:33] Jayla Rae: I don't really care about this. This is just one of those other typologies and I'm just gonna leave it alone and blah, blah, blah. It does take that moment or that encouragement, I think, from someone else in this space to say, wait, hey. Wait a second, like, let's walk through this. Let's, let's walk through why you may have been tested by this number and how it's [00:14:00] inaccurate.
[00:14:00] Jayla Rae: But that doesn't, like, that doesn't make the system itself inaccurate. It just means that this is a really. Interesting and difficult time in your life to be taking a, any kind of quiz, frankly. I mean, when we think about these stressors
[00:14:16] Kellie: Yeah. So when you think about the questions that they're even asking on the quizzes, they're, they're asking you a question. You're responding in that moment in time.
[00:14:24] Kellie: So, okay, cool. That's the way you feel right now. That's what you think is the most important of the four options is right now.
[00:14:31] Kellie: one of the questions that I always ask during typing interviews, Especially if I'm getting conflicting information. So the test isn't gonna be able to suss that out, right? The test is gonna say, okay, you answered B, you get X many points and that's gonna push your score for this type higher. When I'm ta you know, and I'm sure Jayla eight, you're doing the same thing when you're, when you're interviewing someone, you can see the discrepancies, you know, where like you're getting answers that are conflicting with each other or maybe aren't in conflict necessarily, but are pointing towards, like you said, those stress [00:15:00] connections, those resource points, those wings, right?
[00:15:03] Kellie: All of the different sort of flavors of each type. one thing that I always ask is, okay, has that always been true?
[00:15:11] Kellie: because oftentimes people will say, actually, no, when I was a teenager or when I was a young adult, I was blank. Right. Or, I've learned that through therapy I have grown
[00:15:23] Kellie: because I used to react in a much different way, and
[00:15:26] Jayla Rae: was just gonna say that we gotta go back, like we gotta go before the therapy. We gotta go before
[00:15:34] Kellie: Yeah.
[00:15:35] Jayla Rae: the, learning how to like process, and react in a, let's say, less reactive way or a less aggressive way.
[00:15:46] Kellie: A hundred
[00:15:46] Kellie: percent. Yeah.
[00:15:47] Kellie: We, we, we calm down a bit in our old age, and then often, or also it's, it's fairly agreed upon that your personality is at, it's like biggest, most like fluoride self in your early twenties. [00:16:00] So think back to those days, how were you then, how would you answer the test if you were taking it as a brand new military spouse?
[00:16:07] Kellie: So, no, I'm kidding, but, or, you know, just kinda starting out on your life right before the edges start to kind of wear down. what, what would that have looked like? And that's always, and again, with the test, they're not all bad necessarily data points. So just consider that a piece of information. That you can, that you can hold onto.
[00:16:26] Kellie: Hold it loosely. Right. Don't get too hung up on some tests. Type me this, and I didn't like it for all the reasons that j l just said, or Jayla Ra just said like, there could be, you could have taken the test in a bad mood. I, my Myers Briggs change is often every, I remember thinking when, early on when we had first gotten married, I had always tested as an E N T J.
[00:16:48] Kellie: Right? I got married and got thrust into this military lifestyle. All of a sudden I am an E N T P I. I don't have enough information to make good choices ever. So I've [00:17:00] stepped back into a perceiving sort of role, right? And then when I was pregnant, my F would start to show up a bit more, right? And like just cuz of hormones.
[00:17:10] Kellie: And I always got really mad at that system because I'm like, How can it change? That doesn't feel right. It can't, it shouldn't change. I should have some sort of gold standard that I'm able to sort of like, shoot off from, to be able to understand myself. And this isn't, this doesn't feel right that it changes, but, but because Myers Briggs is measuring behavior, That makes sense.
[00:17:32] Kellie: You're gonna change your behavior wherever your focus of attention is in that moment. Your behavior's gonna follow that. So the Enneagram helps kind of zone in on what it is that you're like innately programmed to focus on. Then that then can be helpful and like self-observing.
[00:17:47] Jayla Rae: And I'm glad you brought that up cuz that's one of the big differentiators that I try to discuss with clients that the Enneagram is, is not necessarily a measurement like other tests are. [00:18:00] And it requires a certain amount of self-awareness in order to see yourself. but a test can't. It's like attempting to measure self-awareness.
[00:18:13] Jayla Rae: And if you're,
[00:18:14] Kellie: Right.
[00:18:14] Jayla Rae: if you're not that self-aware, then that's gonna mess the whole thing up. Right. but I love what you said about, it's just data points. Because I actually got to a point where I used my initial test, which had mistyped me, but it had typed me from my stress point. So it was not inaccurate in a way, it just wasn't the core.
[00:18:37] Jayla Rae: It wasn't like, Me deep down, basically. but I used that as a data point. I was like, oh.
[00:18:43] Kellie: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:44] Jayla Rae: And it became, it became deep an opportunity for deeper learning. And I also feel like it fast-tracked a portion of self-awareness for me as well, because learning what you're like with no [00:19:00] stress, how helpful is that?
[00:19:01] Jayla Rae: Right? Like
[00:19:02] Kellie: Right,
[00:19:03] Jayla Rae: how can you, how can you map yourself out of that? How can you use a system as a roadmap if you're just at homeostasis all the time? Like, you know, that doesn't really make sense. But learning about the traits and behaviors that you take on the motivation might still be the same, but the traits and behaviors that you take on under stress.
[00:19:24] Jayla Rae: That's when you're really learning something, because then we're also talking about trigger points, and we're talking about things that really set you over the edge and get your ego running the ship and it's just on overdrive and we don't know how to pull back and we don't know how to like, you know, we don't know how to throttle off basically.
[00:19:44] Jayla Rae: And we get stuck in this weird space of, I don't really feel like myself, but I don't really know why. And the Enneagram is a map. It's telling you why it is that you don't feel like yourself. And how do we get you [00:20:00] back to a more, I don't know if homeostasis is, I've never used that word to describe it before, but it's the one that's coming to mind.
[00:20:08] Kellie: well,
[00:20:08] Kellie: it's, you know, it's your,
[00:20:09] Jayla Rae: ground, I guess?
[00:20:12] Kellie: Yeah. It's too, it feels like, and I love the map sort of metaphor because it's
[00:20:16] Kellie: all, it feels like a really easy-to-spot flag, right? Or a guidepost, on your, on your, just in your day-to-day life. I now know because of the Enneagram, and we haven't, we haven't mentioned this, if you guys can't tell already, I'm a type five.
[00:20:29] Kellie: So the data points, the information, the, all the things are kind of pointing back to my five-ness. I know that. As a defense mechanism, innate to my type. I withdraw and I isolate when I am not feeling like my needs are being met, right? So I just kind of like, no, I'm good. I'm gonna take my toys and I'm going home.
[00:20:51] Kellie: if that gets to a point where it's not serving me, Then what happens is I take this little route up to seven, which is a crazy looking [00:21:00] move, right? It's some, some of the stress moves make sense? five to seven does not. And I can point back to some times, especially early on in military spouse life, where I just made some really spontaneous, irrational.
[00:21:13] Kellie: Compulsive decisions. some of them were not good ones, but like, you know, his first deployment, I got a tattoo and something else that I won't say on a podcast, but I thought, I was like, Woohoo, I'm gonna do all this stuff. And he, I remember my husband even was like, I don't understand what's happening.
[00:21:34] Kellie: Like, who are you right now? Who are you trying to be? You know, is it like influences whatever? I was like, I don't know, I'm just coping. And
[00:21:41] Kellie: that just felt, yeah, it really, really was. I see it coming now. It doesn't mean I, I avoid it by any means. And honestly, truthfully, your stress number can be a resource for you in times of stress.
[00:21:53] Kellie: So learning to be able to pay attention to that move. you can take on some of the higher qualities of your stress number [00:22:00] as a resource, right? So what that looks like as a, in a healthy perspective for me is being able to not be stuck in analysis paralysis, right? It can help me get more in touch with like, fun, you know, and, and, and, things that are lighthearted and optimistic instead of kind of mired in this, like, nihilistic, what does it matter anyway, right?
[00:22:21] Kellie: So once you. Once you learn these things about your type, you can start to see some of like the waypoints where you're like, oh, I can think back to that experience. And that now explains this really erratic seeming, way that I went about handling that thing. It's not that I don't know what I'm doing or I'm falling apart. It's that, oh, that's what my ego or my type structure has been doing to protect me since I was little. It was just
[00:22:49] Kellie: doing its thing. So yeah, I think
[00:22:51] Jayla Rae: That's how, and that's how you said to your husband, like, I'm just coping
[00:22:56] Kellie: Exactly.
[00:22:57] Jayla Rae: how I'm coping. And [00:23:00] I think that's really like powerful and also very, neutralizing language, to just say, this is how I'm coping
[00:23:09] Kellie: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:11] Jayla Rae: I think it's an opportunity for us to. Use that language with each other in relationship.
[00:23:17] Jayla Rae: And if we're talking about, you know, our relationship with our service members, for example, and their, work home life. Is often imbalanced and we are taking on, a lot of the gaps in order to keep things moving smoothly. Whether that's like a household with kids, financially, like there's a, there's so many scenarios in which we are thrust into, that.
[00:23:44] Jayla Rae: Cause so much stress and our coping mechanisms don't have to, they also don't have to be the same every time. And the fact that that one isolated incident, Kelly, where you got a tattoo and something else[00:24:00]
[00:24:00] Kellie: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:01] Jayla Rae: like you've never done, you've never done that again. Right. Like that was that one time, but it
[00:24:07] Kellie: that sounds fun. Let's do that. That's gonna solve
[00:24:09] Jayla Rae: out in your mind.
[00:24:11] Kellie: right?
[00:24:12] Jayla Rae: And I love to discuss those moments, on typing interviews, for example, because, you know, when I ask about, can you think of your, can you think of a time in your life when X, Y, Z. Or can you think of a time in your life when your response was X, Y, Z, or, or something phrased like that?
[00:24:33] Jayla Rae: Inevitably people are gonna give me the outlier. They're not actually gonna give me the pattern of behavior. It's, it's usually an outlier and sometimes it's also a traumatic experience because those are what sticks, like stick out in our brain and that's what we would like pull from. Automatically. But what I love about your example is that it [00:25:00] actually does like fit within the system of any crown.
[00:25:03] Jayla Rae: It's very seven-like behavior.
[00:25:07] Kellie: Right.
[00:25:07] Jayla Rae: So like
[00:25:08] Kellie: And once you,
[00:25:08] Kellie: yeah, once you see it too, you're like, oh, then that time mm-hmm. That time too. And that, you know, like I
[00:25:15] Kellie: I mean it's in college, but like I've danced on bars. Like who does that? Not
[00:25:22] Kellie: fives. You know, like, like that's not, nor maybe it's nor, yeah, look, you do you, but looking back, I'm like, what
[00:25:32] Jayla Rae: It's not, it wasn't normal for you, that wasn't you.
[00:25:38] Kellie: Yeah. Yeah. And so if I were to like, you know, try to type myself in moments like that, God, that would be really hard to, it would just be, it would just be confusing. It would just be a confusing result that wouldn't really be of any value. So I think we, I think we need to get a little life experience behind us, right?
[00:25:55] Kellie: To be able to like, tie those strings together. But then, again, just being really, really, [00:26:00] Brutally honest, compassionately curious, right about,
[00:26:04] Kellie: you know, situations that have arisen how you, and again, you guys, we don't know these, these, these patterns are happening unconsciously. Like subconsciously they're just occurring because we've gotten really good at navigating our lives.
[00:26:17] Kellie: In this way, this is
[00:26:18] Kellie: how we feel like our needs get met and we stay protected, and that's what we do. So we have to first start to like pay attention to like, oh, interesting, I just did X, Y, Z. Or I'm thinking, you know, I'm telling myself this story about that interaction I just had, or, or whatever it is.
[00:26:34] Kellie: It's harder to do in like, like, like you've said in the calm moments, it's hard, hard, hard to do in the positive moments. Right to honor
[00:26:42] Kellie: something good that's happening. We don't have that capability like just baked in, but with the negative stuff, it's often a lot easier. So sadly, you kind of have to start there.
[00:26:53] Kellie: So if you're feeling like
[00:26:54] Kellie: reactive in some way, like going through your day and somebody says something and you like have a [00:27:00] reaction to it, right? That's either emotional, that's a bodily reaction. Like, you know, we talk a lot about somatics in the narrative Enneagram tradition, which is the school that I come from, but.
[00:27:11] Kellie: What are you feeling in your body right now? You know, if you start to get upset or if you start to get angry, or if you start to get frustrated to just stop, take a moment and start recognizing what's happening is your stomach. Constricting. Is there tingling in your fingers? Is there a tightening in your chest?
[00:27:30] Kellie: Are you feeling warmth anywhere? Right? Just paying attention, first of all, it, it calms the, the mental sea a little bit because you're, you're pointing your focus of attention and your energy behind something other than the thing that just made you reactive. you can be curious about like, why was that?
[00:27:47] Kellie: Does that real? Did I hear what actually was said? You know, like what? What am I interpreting here? And then also you can start to think about sort of these. Extra stories that are getting added on top of [00:28:00] it. and by the time you've done all that, you guys, the heat of it has passed. You know, you can say, wow, that was a whole experience, you know, thank you self and, and body and heart and mind for doing what you think is best in that moment, but, you know, I got it.
[00:28:15] Kellie: We're gonna, we're gonna move forward in a more healthy way. So seeing, seeing that, This is your Enneagram type. These are things that could be your triggers. And then like, okay, well let me pay attention to that. and if you will, I have a story that helps illustrate this, I think a lot. So
[00:28:30] Kellie: I, my husband and
[00:28:32] Jayla Rae: let's hear more about like somatics for sure. Oh, sorry. I think I cut you off on accident because I think this is an aspect of the Enneagram that I've been diving into, in the last like year and a half or so, and now I can't parcel it out. I can't separate it anymore, and I think that's how it should be.
[00:28:47] Jayla Rae: So yes, please.
[00:28:48] Kellie: You absolutely can't. Yeah. Yeah. You ha It has to be, it's actually one of the, one of the pillars, right? I mean, you really need to, because, because, because, and this is all I attribute to Helen Palmer. If you guys are interested in either Helen [00:29:00] Palmer or David Daniels, they're enormous work. I mean they're incredible, incredible teachers.
[00:29:05] Kellie: I'll paint a picture and then I'll tell a story. Okay? So, Imagine us all on these boats, right? You're on a little boat on the water and you're, you're up in the little crow's nest, and you're looking around and you're like, ah, life is good. This is this awesome boating experience we're having calm seas, et cetera.
[00:29:22] Kellie: Things are great. All of a sudden, a storm comes up and you're up in the little crow's nest, and you start freaking out because the waters are getting choppy, they're churning, right? You're looking, you're, you're observing the horizon, like, this is bad. I don't know how I'm gonna get out of this. So imagine the, the perception you up in the crow's nest looking around top side, if you will, as your sort of mental.
[00:29:45] Kellie: Faculties. Your, your, your, your head center of intelligence. This is what we're perceiving in our thoughts, right? We're seeing like worst-case scenarios. We're seeing the storm, we're seeing fear, right? Where we're like, oh crap. [00:30:00] What am I gonna do to get out of this? The waves themselves, even several feet deep in the ocean, are gonna be representative of like your emotions, your heart space.
[00:30:10] Kellie: It's really hard to catch your breath when you're like caught up in like some sort of emotional. Process. That could be anger, that could be shame, that could be fear, right? Like any of those sorts of sorts of emotions are gonna be really all consuming and you can't really do much other than just let go and go with it, right?
[00:30:27] Kellie: You can't fight those waves. You have to let them happen. If you drop down even farther into the sea, it starts to become calm. Right, and the deeper you go, the more calm, even the dirt on the bottom is, it's fine. You know, sea life is going about their day, like not even recognizing that there's a storm on the surface.
[00:30:48] Kellie: And that sort of represents your body, your gut, right? That's the somatic level. Anything that we're going through, we have to learn to be able to drop down beneath all of the noise of your head and [00:31:00] your heart drop down into your body because that's the only, that's the only moment that matters. That's only the present, that's you breathing air into your body, right?
[00:31:11] Kellie: So one of the practices, I used to think, this all sounded crazy, you guys, I am not like a yoga person. Like even during all our,
[00:31:21] Jayla Rae: I hate breathing.
[00:31:22] Kellie: It's so, well, I don't understand the rules of it, right? So even during our, our engram trainings, we'd begin these cohorts and there were so many people that were so much better at this than me, right?
[00:31:32] Kellie: All of the woo, right?
[00:31:34] Kellie: And I'm like,
[00:31:34] Kellie: whatever. Just tell me, give me the slide with all the, the data on it, right? they would tell us, you know, okay, we do these meditation practices, which we're, you know, he really, actually profoundly helpful. But in the beginning, I'm like, they, they would always stop us when we would share and they'd say, okay, take a breath here. And I just wanted to be like, well, how many breaths am I supposed to be taking right now? What's the rule here? Like, you know, Mrs.
[00:31:56] Jayla Rae: How, how deep, how many seconds? Yeah. How many seconds do I [00:32:00] count? How deep do does it go? Like how do I know I'm doing it right? Yep.
[00:32:04] Kellie: Totally. It's, it's still my work. That's what my work is getting into, cuz I have a doing repress center right. My gut center is repressed, so that is something that I'm paying a lot of attention to.
[00:32:14] Kellie: But literally just breathing in, following the breath all the way down through your body, through your lungs, into your belly center. Taking a moment. Realizing that your feet are on the floor, right? That you're safe in this moment. I assume if you have time to sit and do a breathing exercise, you should be reasonably safe.
[00:32:34] Kellie: So recognizing that you are safe, you know, and that you can let the other systems calm down just a bit, you know, and let the other systems kind of take a break and let you like, Reorient on what's important, reevaluate what's actually happening on the surface. so yeah, but those moments are extremely hard to get to, especially when you're kind of in this ever-present [00:33:00] storm that feels like you hardly ever get a break from military life.
[00:33:04] Kellie: So
[00:33:04] Jayla Rae: Yes.
[00:33:05] Kellie: The story is an actual hurricane. This is fun, you guys. I love that this is all tying together.
[00:33:10] Jayla Rae: Oh wow.
[00:33:11] Kellie: know.
[00:33:11] Jayla Rae: we've come, we've come full circle now.
[00:33:14] Kellie: I got it. I got that, I got that callback. so we were here in Fayetteville, we're stationed at Fort Bragg and there was Hurricane Matthew several years ago. It was a big deal. it came. Really far inland.
[00:33:27] Kellie: We thought we'd be fine. We're like 90 minutes from the coast. We were not fine. It came straight up I 95 directly at us. so you know, it's all the, if you guys have never had the opportunity to live in the southeast, this is the dance that we do with hurricanes. It's everybody freaks out, buys the bread and milk and eggs to make french toast or whatever you're supposed to do for supplies and you know, you either hunker down, you evacuate, right?
[00:33:50] Kellie: Those are the two choices. Well, I give you two guesses, Jay Leray at what I wanted to do in the face of conflict or danger.[00:34:00]
[00:34:00] Jayla Rae: Hide.
[00:34:02] Kellie: Hide. I wanted to leave. I was ready to split tail. We were kids and I were gonna pack up, we were gonna go across like as far inland, literally into the country as we needed to go, to get in away from this storm. So I'm running around the house, like literally packing, trying to find hotels, you know, in Charlotte or Asheville or somewhere farther away.
[00:34:20] Kellie: And my husband and I were in a big disagreement about this because he was like, No, you can't. You're not leaving. Like, we're not going anywhere. And I'm like, well you can stay here if you want. By the way, you guys, he's a type eight. So his stance in the face of things like this is aggression. It's, no, we're gonna meet it head-on.
[00:34:37] Kellie: I'm gonna, I'm gonna stand here and like protect my
[00:34:40] Kellie: house and protect.
[00:34:41] Jayla Rae: Yeah, and this is just a problem to solve. So like why don't we just go do it?
[00:34:46] Kellie: Totally. Yeah. And I'm like, no. All literally, like, I was like, I was, I was not. Okay. And so I talked to a dear friend of mine, who also knows the Enneagram very well, and she calmed me down and she was like, Kelly, This is [00:35:00] what's happening for you right now. Like you're a type five, you're trying to withdraw, your actual physical resources are in danger right now.
[00:35:10] Kellie: They're at risk. That's scary for you, you know, so, so, and, and here's again, my husband. I'm trying to leave with the, the family, you know, and he's like, no, I have to stay and protect the house, but if you guys leave, I can't protect you. So he was in conflict because his most precious things were gonna be vulnerable.
[00:35:30] Kellie: so once we realized we were like diametrically opposed at re ways to handle the situation, but once we realized like, oh, we're both sort of doing our, our like, You know, scary thing, like we're both kind of falling into our, like riding the waves of the storm, right? We're like, okay, this is, this is our, these are our go-to ways of coping.
[00:35:50] Kellie: and they're opposed with each other. So once we knew like, this is our type acting up, we could say, okay, let's figure out a compromise. Compromise was let's getting a generator [00:36:00] to protect the resources in the house, the food in the fridge, et cetera. And we would stay put, right? And so he got his way. He didn't wanna buy the, the generator, but he, he gave in to me for that.
[00:36:12] Kellie: And then even farther to continue to bear the point I read the manual to the generator. Front page to back page, like watched instruction videos on YouTube. My sweet dear husband literally took it outta the box and started kicking it and yanking on chords and made it work like, so, even like every single step of the way, we're like the quintessential type right of each of our, of our corresponding centers.
[00:36:38] Kellie: But yeah, we, we survived the storm. Our house was fine. we sustained almost no damage, but once it passed we could like really spend some time with, oh, I love how we were able to come together. It seemed stressful in the moment, but now looking back we're like, I don't know if we could have done that without the language that we had around our type structures.[00:37:00]
[00:37:01] Jayla Rae: Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the language because if delivered, Appropriate. Not like,
[00:37:11] Jayla Rae: ugh, you're being such a type X right now. And I am so frustrated, like not that, but more like getting curious of like, Hey, this is what I'm observing on the surface. I'd really like to know what's going on internally with you.
[00:37:25] Jayla Rae: How are you actually like feeling? How is your gut processing this? Or like, what is it that you're. Thinking like what loop is happening inside your head. Those kinds of questions are opportunities for us to hear each other underneath the framework of the Enneagram, which I think just kind of can neutralize those moments.
[00:37:50] Jayla Rae: Maybe not in a hurricane situation like that is the, your life is at stake. Like that is a life-or-death circumstance. And luckily [00:38:00] that time that was not what was actually on the line, and you guys were fine, but it could be at any point, like any hurricane could, could actually take your lives. And so it's, it's so messy in the moment.
[00:38:15] Jayla Rae: But what's so cool about you telling that story and and sharing it with us here is that. Everybody has now thought of their own version of that story and hopefully is now taking stock and taking a moment to think about, well, here's what I know about my type. Here's a little bit what I know about my partner and you know, the little bit that I know about the Enneagram.
[00:38:40] Jayla Rae: I wonder if our reactions were based on our type structure. And even just asking that question is,
[00:38:49] Jayla Rae: is going deeper. And understanding how to evaluate the
[00:38:53] Kellie: I'll also add like, Totally. Yeah. And then not only that, but recognizing the strengths of the [00:39:00] other types and your own type. Right. So we're able to, you know, he knew to let me pick the generator out cuz I, I can do the research and that's like second nature for me. And I now know, and I've always kind of known this, but now again, we have words for it. He's good in a pinch, you know, like beyond like some, you know, masculine whatever, whatever. Like that's his go-to. Like I
[00:39:23] Jayla Rae: It's what he's made for.
[00:39:26] Kellie: It's totally what he's made for and I can trust that. And honestly, even though he didn't think through the decision, his decisions are often dead on cuz he just has a way of knowing the right thing to do.
[00:39:36] Kellie: Like what
[00:39:36] Jayla Rae: Cuz it's coming from his gut.
[00:39:39] Kellie: Exactly. Exactly. And I know that now, so Yeah.
[00:39:43] Jayla Rae: Yes.
[00:39:44] Kellie: I used to question it like, we need to do
[00:39:45] Kellie: This. No, I just need to trust him and it's fine. we, we were in a, we were in a mountains one time not too long ago, and we started to skid off the road. We had a whole situation and I was not okay.
[00:39:58] Kellie: And, but I kept telling [00:40:00] myself like, he's got it. He's got it. Just trust him. This is not your strong suit. You don't do peril. He does peril. You know, and he can do peril, and so I can, I can let go and, and know that more than likely we're gonna be okay, so.
[00:40:14] Jayla Rae: Yeah. Well, I love that you brought that example up too, because that's completely opposite of the first example.
[00:40:22] Kellie: Right. Right.
[00:40:23] Jayla Rae: Like the first example is you weren't allowing. There was a lot of butting heads. You weren't allowing each other to bring your strong suits to the situation. And obviously you got past it and you can look back on it now, but the second example, like peril, oh my gosh, another level of peril.
[00:40:43] Jayla Rae: And now that you have the language of the engram and you have that understanding, you were able to like process it differently in the moment and say, you know what? It's his. It's his gut that is leading this and if he trusts his gut, [00:41:00] okay, and now I need to like also learn how to trust his gut. And this whole, this whole concept of being like gut centric of belonging to the gut center of intelligence, I have been.
[00:41:15] Jayla Rae: Experimenting with so many different ways to describe this to people, because I think there's a lot of mixed messages out there about what it means to listen to your gut. First of all, some people think that listening to your gut is listening to your heart, and if we're thinking about our anatomy, Those two things are not the same, right?
[00:41:38] Jayla Rae: Just like anatomically, those two things are not the same. But there are all these messages out there of like, oh, just listen to your heart or listen to your gut. And then there are certain types on the Enneagram where if you say that to them, they'll immediately go in overdrive of like, well, wait, what do you mean though?
[00:41:57] Jayla Rae: Like, I need you to be more specific [00:42:00] about what it is that means. And I think your example of your husband of like, he doesn't need to do the research in order to make a decision. That's never really a process that he's gonna follow. He's just literally doing a gut check. It's an inner knowing and then he decides, and the fact that he can be so decisive is also part of his defense mechanism.
[00:42:28] Jayla Rae: Because if he weren't able to make quick decisions and to like meet challenges head on, well then there's the potential of appearing weak and we can't have that. And so we have to, we have to make the decision and we have to move on and we have to do it quickly. And there has to be like, there's this pressure that that goes with that too, of like the decision has been made and now it needs to be followed through immediately.
[00:42:57] Kellie: Right, exactly. Yeah. There's, it it [00:43:00] all goes back to your, we call it the basic proposition, right? In your, in, in our tradition, it's, it's, there's something that we get disconnected from super early on. we're kind of born with this perceptive filter, right? We experience the world in whatever kind of way.
[00:43:14] Kellie: at some point we start to. Believe that reality is counter to, what actually is the truth? That we are sort of all divinely connected and, and worthy of love just because we are who we are. We all kind of craft these sort of stories in nine different ways that tell us and inform everything that we do that, oh, in order to receive love.
[00:43:37] Kellie: I have to do X, I have to protect X, or I have to pursue this goal. I have to avoid this thing. Right. Those are your, again, when we're talking about core motivations and fears, that's what we're talking about. And so for the type eight, All of their lives, they have been trusting. They, they hear the gut.
[00:43:55] Kellie: That's their dominant center. That's where they kind of always kind of, they, that's what [00:44:00] they prioritize is their kinesthetic or sensate sort of intelligence. Their knowing of their surroundings, their environment. So what happens is, because they typically. Learned. They've learned to trust that, and they act based upon that.
[00:44:14] Kellie: Often they're rewarded by being safe or getting their needs met. Then they just keep doing it. So guess what? They're really good at it. They're really practiced. They're often right. You know, like there could be times that they, they don't, but that's a muscle that they've strengthened. And we all do that in different ways.
[00:44:30] Kellie: We've all prioritized a different sort of way of knowing. It's worked for us for our entire lives. So that just becomes a more like rigid sort of type structure that's built around us. Again, none of this is bad. This, and then we're not even trying to say like, you shouldn't have this. I mean, it's, it's a part of life.
[00:44:48] Kellie: We're, we're human beings. We're gonna have an ego, we're gonna have these, these, all of these mechanisms in play within us. What's. Best is to recognize them and understand, or sort of question whether or not [00:45:00] these, these patterns are limiting you in some way. Often they are. and so you can start to pay attention to, you know, loosening up your grip on some of these patterned reactions.
[00:45:11] Jayla Rae: Yeah. Again, back to those patterns
[00:45:14] Kellie: Yep.
[00:45:14] Jayla Rae: when we're evaluating ourselves, it is important to try and recognize what the pattern has been more often than not, rather than. Those outliers. But I love that this hurricane example and even the mountain example is like, it should be in, I was gonna say a romantic comedy, but pro, like a dramatic moment of a romantic comedy.
[00:45:38] Jayla Rae: Not like,
[00:45:39] Jayla Rae: because it's funny.
[00:45:40] Kellie: it was not romantic in the least,
[00:45:42] Kellie: but.
[00:45:42] Jayla Rae: was not romantic. It was not romantic in the least, there was
[00:45:46] Kellie: Yeah, and the, well, I will say that there was a funny part cuz my baby, my youngest we're pretty sure is a type nine. Also try not to type your kids, but like you can also know like what they're leaning
[00:45:57] Jayla Rae: Too late. No, I'm
[00:45:59] Kellie: I [00:46:00] know, but he's
[00:46:00] Kellie: so
[00:46:01] Jayla Rae: of 'em, I'm really sure. I'm really sure of one of 'em. And the other one I'm like up in the air. We'll see.
[00:46:08] Kellie: I know, I know, I know, I know mine. And actually for my daughter's 13th birthday, I gave her a little insight on what I believe she might be leaning towards. so any, I digress. But my, my youngest total nine carefree, cuckoo, cchu, you know, most easygoing kid you've ever met in your life, and he's got all the stubbornness in the indecisiveness.
[00:46:28] Kellie: All of it. All of it. Conflict aversion. He's, he's textbook, he's in the back seat while we're like sideways in this ditch. He's just like, he's like asking us what was gonna be for dinner. I'm like, we're like upside down. He's like, whatever. Like, we're like, oh, that's, and because again, we're like, God, if he's not a nine, I don't know what he is. You know, like we were able to kind of share that joke, like he's so textbook, so yeah.
[00:46:57] Jayla Rae: Yeah. No, and I think those, those [00:47:00] like textbook examples are really. Interesting because one of the reasons, and Kelly alluded to this, but one of the reasons why typing your kids is a complicated thing and like don't actually do it.
[00:47:13] Kellie: Yeah.
[00:47:15] Jayla Rae: Formed yet. And you can still, you can see inklings of it really early on. but I think what could be kind of like painful for parents is they think the solution is to type their kid, but the solution is actually to learn how to parent from your type in a way that works for you and is not like, Brushing up against what you think you should be doing and just doing what works for you.
[00:47:42] Kellie: Right.
[00:47:43] Jayla Rae: And I have to, I have to shout out a friend really quickly cuz I did not come to those conclusions on my own. Jen Whitmer, thank you so much for helping me get there, because that was really a pivotal moment for me to realize like, I can't, I can't give them. More [00:48:00] tools or do things differently based on their type necessarily.
[00:48:03] Jayla Rae: Like sometimes it might help, but it really comes down to how do I as a type four
[00:48:12] Kellie: Yeah.
[00:48:13] Jayla Rae: who belong to completely different centers of intelligence. Absolutely.
[00:48:17] Kellie: It's, it's that part. It's that part, right? It's knowing that they're probably not little baby fives or fours or eights or
[00:48:23] Kellie: just like you, right? They are
[00:48:25] Kellie: probably one of the other nine types. Right? So just even that, like knowing that the way you say a thing could be is gonna get filtered through. Their type structure or their, their perception.
[00:48:37] Kellie: So like, you know, I, what I like to focus on when people ask me about parenting is, just paying attention to the lost childhood messages, right? That thing
[00:48:44] Kellie: that just really early on. Caused a disconnect or like, you know, they, they felt like somehow they were in some, you, you, everyone has this lost childhood message.
[00:48:54] Kellie: It's not that we were parented improperly necessarily. I mean, sometimes maybe, but it's [00:49:00] just that we weren't capable of receiving the love that was being given to us and for whatever reason, so one for, I'll use the nine child as an example. The loss of childhood message for a nine is that your opinions matter.
[00:49:12] Kellie: Somehow they lost that
[00:49:13] Kellie: message and they don't think that their
[00:49:14] Kellie: opinions matter. I don't think it hurts
[00:49:17] Jayla Rae: And presence,
[00:49:19] Kellie: in presence. Yes. I
[00:49:20] Kellie: don't think it hurts any child.
[00:49:22] Jayla Rae: Yeah. Presence.
[00:49:25] Kellie: It, it
[00:49:25] Kellie: doesn't hurt any child to hear that their opinions and presence matter. Right.
[00:49:31] Kellie: So anytime he speaks up, I try to make sure that we don't overrun him with all of our opinions or, you know, whatever I, that that doesn't hurt any child, regardless of their type.
[00:49:41] Kellie: So try focusing on some of the more positive, reinforcing messages regardless of what you think they are. Right. I think that's always, Just super helpful. If you make mistakes, it's okay. You're still loved. Mistakes happen. If you fail, it's okay. You're still loved. You're not loved
[00:49:55] Kellie: because of what you do, right?
[00:49:57] Kellie: Like little, all the way around. We could, we could think of [00:50:00] positive messages to reinforce.
[00:50:02] Jayla Rae: Yeah, and I think there's another element too where, I mean, I don't know how we started talking about parenting, but here we are, where it's helpful to sometimes categorize things in the bucket of, I've seen this happen more than once. This is a pattern and therefore it is a part of their personality and it might not be worth it.
[00:50:25] Jayla Rae: Trying so desperately hard to change that because it's already here. It's, it's already a pattern, especially if they're older. I have stepkids, one is a preteen, and one is a teenager. It's, it's already there. Whether I can like determine it or not is like a whole other thing. It's there. Their personality is formed and it's gonna continue.
[00:50:51] Jayla Rae: Strengthening, not strengthening. Gonna continue growing strengths and weaknesses over the next. Several years of development. but [00:51:00] it, it already started,
[00:51:01] Jayla Rae: so I can't, like, you know,
[00:51:05] Jayla Rae: so even evaluating those lost childhood messages, I could see, especially for, you know, the heart types, myself, among them immediately reverting to.
[00:51:14] Jayla Rae: Using that as a way to shame yourself of like, I did this wrong, this is my fault. Or you know, however, and you might interpret that information slightly differently, belonging to the head center of intelligence. Or maybe not. Cuz we're all just parents and we're all just trying to
[00:51:32] Kellie: Oh, I, it's
[00:51:33] Kellie: for us, it's, we don't know what we're doing. We're not
[00:51:35] Kellie: capable. Right.
[00:51:36] Jayla Rae: Thank you.
[00:51:37] Jayla Rae: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:51:38] Kellie: Totally.
[00:51:40] Jayla Rae: And I have a really big, I would say I still have a really big relationship to that. I don't know what I'm doing, and I think that's just because I was thrusted into Step Parenthood, and so literally I don't think that I know what I'm doing
[00:51:51] Kellie: Oh, I'm sure you're doing great.
[00:51:56] Jayla Rae: with my
[00:51:57] Kellie: That's, that's, that's amazing. And that's [00:52:00] the best way to be.
[00:52:01] Kellie: Just love them. Love them fully. And if anyone can, it's, it's a type four.
[00:52:07] Jayla Rae: I know. I just try to remind myself that like. providing emotional support actually goes a long way.
[00:52:14] Kellie: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Jayla Rae: It doesn't, it doesn't necessarily help them in becoming more decisive or, learning how to check in with their gut, for example, and to, to help make those decisions. But hopefully, it does go a long way in terms of I felt heard and seen and that's all I wanted to feel as a kid.
[00:52:35] Jayla Rae: So I dunno. That's what I'm leading with.
[00:52:39] Kellie: They'll feel, they'll feel overseen and then that'll, that'll result in its own thing. It's
[00:52:43] Kellie: fine.
[00:52:43] Jayla Rae: Good. Yes. I know. It's gonna be like, it's gonna be overboard, so.
[00:52:47] Kellie: It's totally, it's fine. It's what, look, that's, it's been happening since the dawn of time, right? We over-correct what we think we should have done differently or what our parents should have done differently, and then we end up doing the exact opposite to our kids. [00:53:00] It's just the way it's humanity.
[00:53:02] Jayla Rae: it goes. It is the way it goes.
[00:53:05] Jayla Rae: well, I really, really appreciate you coming on because not only did we get to have a conversation and we graced a lot of different Examples of how we can use the Enneagram, but we also brought in the military spouses' story element of like why it could be so difficult to type yourself
[00:53:23] Kellie: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:24] Jayla Rae: while experiencing military life.
[00:53:26] Jayla Rae: and we got really good snippets of your tendency to withdraw. And I will just. Say for the record, I also belong to the withdrawal stance, so I relate to that reaction. And, maybe we should come back and talk about stances another time because I think that would be really fun.
[00:53:44] Kellie: Love that.
[00:53:47] Jayla Rae: Love me. Some good stance work.
[00:53:49] Kellie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:53:51] Kellie: And actually subtypes would be cool to talk about too. Someday
[00:53:54] Kellie: soon. Well, well do,
[00:53:56] Jayla Rae: if you, oh wait, we already know each other's. We already know each [00:54:00] other's, but we could, yeah, we could come back and talk about, subtypes and well start with the three instincts.
[00:54:06] Kellie: Yep.
[00:54:07] Jayla Rae: Dive further into how that makes the subtype, stances. I mean, we could even talk more about stress points specifically, but I just wanna thank you for taking the time to actually.
[00:54:18] Jayla Rae: Teach as you were talking as well, I was like, oh my goodness, I hope everyone just like took notes. Cause there was a
[00:54:26] Kellie: help it.
[00:54:28] Jayla Rae: I know. It's like information overload in the best way
[00:54:32] Kellie: Oh,
[00:54:33] Kellie: thanks.
[00:54:34] Jayla Rae: I knew that would happen. I was like, oh, it's, it's so good to like talk to somebody who. Knows that how the importance of information and like how to bring that forward.
[00:54:45] Jayla Rae: And I just love that. Like we're, we're at the bottom of the Enneagram. This is how we do it, I guess. So.
[00:54:51] Kellie: Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. I love that.
[00:54:56] Jayla Rae: Well thank you so much and I will include where [00:55:00] people can keep up with you online in the show notes, but would you also like to say it here too?
[00:55:06] Kellie: Oh well, there's a website in progress. Eventually, it will just be kellyartis.com. right now you can find me through a quick connect to all of my things: kelly.bio.link.
[00:55:20] Jayla Rae: Awesome. Yeah, and she's very, like I said in the beginning, like she's kind of everywhere, so keep tabs on her for sure.
[00:55:29] Kellie: Thank
[00:55:29] Jayla Rae: Alright, we see you next time. Yeah, thanks. Bye.
[00:55:33]Kellie: Bye.