How He’s Creating Milspouse Communities with Mathew Shanks

Male Milspouse Series
Written By Jayla Rae
 

Have you ever felt lonely and wanted to call your milspouse friends, but put down the phone because you were afraid they’d be too busy to talk? You want to keep in touch with your friends all around the world but you just don’t know how. This is exactly the problem our guest Mathew Shanks is solving for us today.  

Mathew hopped on a call (or three 😅) with me to talk about how he created communities halfway around the world when he had none. 

Matthew Shanks is a military spouse, dad, and entrepreneur focusing on ways to help people connect more meaningfully. He’s the founder of the Kovii app, an app that lets you know which friends would like to talk to you, anytime you’re in the mood to connect. 

 

While he’d never made an app before, he knew that he, especially as a male Milspouse, needed friends. He needed a community that would understand a milspouses sometimes chaotic life. This is why he made an easy way for military spouses to chat and connect from wherever they are. 

If you liked this episode and you’d like to hear more, please take a moment to leave a sparkly review and subscribe to The Heart of a Milspouse Podcast. Subscriptions and positive reviews make a huge difference for podcasters and would help us immensely. Thanks! 

------------------------------------

Matthew Shanks is a military spouse, dad, and entrepreneur focusing on ways to help people connect more meaningfully. He’s the founder of the Kovii app, a video chat app that lets you know which of your friends would like to talk to you, anytime you’re in the mood to connect but aren’t sure which friend to call. He’s also the founder of the Military Social Network, which helps people develop friendships through the MilSocial app, and various events, programs, and Facebook groups.

------------------------------------

Find Mathew in all the places:

------------------------------------

Resources Mentioned: 

------------------------------------

The Heart of a Milspouse Podcast is hosted by Jayla Rae Ardelean, Milspouse Mentor, Speaker, and Writer.

Grab your ♥️free♥️ resources here: jaylarae.com

Let's chat! @mil.spouse

TRANSCRIPT: How He’s Creating Milspouse Communities with Mathew Shanks

[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Matthew Shanks: Hello, I'm Matthew Shanks. I'm a dad and military spouse and my career has moved all over the place. From an aerospace engineer when I met my wife to leaving that behind and doing triathlon coaching full-time, to covid hitting and knocking down that business.

[00:00:23] Matthew Shanks: And then, getting into what I've been working on the last two and a half years, which is all, around the personal connection space. helping people connect with friends or. Anyone really, but focusing on that one-on-one connection. and that's led into a video chat app that I created as well as a military spouse friending app and various programs and events to help military spouses connect on that personal level.

[00:00:54] Jayla Rae Ardelean: which is what we were doing just before I hit record . Yeah. 

[00:00:59] Matthew Shanks: [00:01:00] We were having this whole. 

[00:01:03] Jayla Rae Ardelean: This whole conversa, this very honest conversation about, the downside, I guess the downsize of being a spouse and feeling as though, well now I don't know how to summarize it. How would you summarize it?

[00:01:16] Matthew Shanks: I would, I would say we were talking about, personal fulfillment from what we're doing.

[00:01:21] Matthew Shanks: and what we're doing, what you and I, and the same is being entrepreneurs on this journey to create something that we see a vision for, but not yet having it being a financially profitable business. And so we're juggling being the supportive spouse. Maybe seeing that we should feel fulfillment from that, but personally I don't.

[00:01:50] Matthew Shanks: And it sounds like you're similar.

[00:01:51] Jayla Rae Ardelean: No, it's not enough. It's not even close to being enough. 

[00:01:54] Matthew Shanks: doesn't feel like, you know, you're doing work and helping, but you don't feel it. 

[00:01:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: [00:02:00] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Well, I was using, I was using an example of, Jeremy having like a really big presentation at work, basically. And I was joking because I don't know what the content or really the kind of, I don't even know the purpose of what this meeting was.

[00:02:18] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I just know it was really important and it was in front of a lot of people and a lot of really important people. And it took weeks to prepare and different tds to prepare. It was hell cuz it was right after we PCSed. And here I am at home, you know, becoming a full-time parent with my stepkids. They just moved overseas for the very first time in their lives.

[00:02:41] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I've returned to a city that I have lived in before, but this was in a completely different context and I'm not feeling as though. I'm doing anything. I feel like everything I'm doing is failing. Like nothing is good enough, all that. And so then when he delivered this [00:03:00] praise, when I said, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you, it went so well.

[00:03:03] Jayla Rae Ardelean: This is so great. And he said, he pauses and he is like, no, we did this. Because I wouldn't have been able to perform at my best at work. Had you not done everything at home to keep things afloat. and what Matt and I were just talking about is that I could not, I knew that like, you know it logically, but you also can't like, let it really seep in or feel it too deeply.

[00:03:31] Jayla Rae Ardelean: first of all, because you're exhausted and you're burnt out and so you're already at your wit's end. But secondly, it's . I've never received praise quite like that before, and so it was kind of a strange experience to receive it. Did I recount that accurately? ? 

[00:03:50] Matthew Shanks: I think so, yeah. . 

[00:03:54] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You had also said that it was kind of rare for a military spouse maybe in that situation to receive [00:04:00] that level of, of gratitude and of praise of like, thank you for doing what you're doing at home so that I can perform at work.

[00:04:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And, I would think that's true because I think this is only the second time I've ever received . A big thank you in seven years. . 

[00:04:18] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. I, I mean, I don't know if it's rare cuz I don't, I don't know people's relationships that well. I, I imagine the really strong relationships where, where the spouse is feeling very fulfilled from their supportive role, I imagine their active duty.

[00:04:39] Matthew Shanks: Service member does thank them and recognize it a lot, and that's one of the reasons why they're able to, really embrace it. one thing you wanted to talk about today, I think was, was the, the male challenges, and I don't think this is a male challenge, but I think it's exacerbated for the males, is, I, in general, men are gonna have a really, really, [00:05:00] really hard time with that feeling fulfilled from taking care of the house.

[00:05:03] Matthew Shanks: And kids, women, I think it's like some do, some don't. Some feel like they're accomplishing their role or whatever by supporting the family. Some feel like they need to do more. I think men. Kind of always feel like they need to do more and even when they say with their family, like they decide together that we're going to focus on the wife's career in the military and the dad's gonna stay home and support, Society is constantly judging that, second guessing that decision and, and belittling the man little, little by little, typically, about it.

[00:05:44] Matthew Shanks: And it, it's, it's small things just like you show up somewhere and, and somebody like, oh, what? , where do you work or what do you do? And, and you can tell by the person's response if you say, I'm a stay at home. [00:06:00] Dad or whatever. Like there's, there's this like hesitation where, where they have to think about it for a second and the response is usually like, oh, good for you.

[00:06:10] Matthew Shanks: But like you can see in the back of their mind, like they're kind of like, oh, I thought you'd be doing something more. And maybe, maybe that's the perception of the, the male spouse hearing it, not the projection, who knows? But it's, it's culturally rooted to feel like the male is supposed to do more than taking care of the.

[00:06:31] Matthew Shanks: Can I tell you? I've had an opposite. I haven't never told anybody. I'm a stay-at-home spouse, so I don't, I'm kind of, I'm just like, imagine. Cause I don't know, I see it in other guys. the pain is there and for me it's kind of like an internal struggle of what, what's my role like when, when. When there's a snow day and somebody has to take care of the kids, well now I'm default take care of the kid's [00:07:00] parent, like even though I'm an entrepreneur and have these big business aspirations, like those always have to come second to family.

[00:07:08] Matthew Shanks: Whereas for Rachel, my wife, work comes first and it, it's a hard comes first and then we pick up the slack. 

[00:07:19] Jayla Rae Ardelean: and being that primary caregiver in your household. I mean, how do you stay in touch with you as the individual and not get lost in 

[00:07:30] Matthew Shanks: that role? Yeah. 

[00:07:33] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So you were saying you feel the opposite, on something, or, or how do you feel? Oh, no, just when you were speaking to, that slow, like that slow belittlement and it kind of happens really quickly in those social interactions. I, this isn't the first time that this has happened, but I, I'm having a hard time remembering other duty stations where it did happen.

[00:07:55] but arriving to a new post and. . [00:08:00] You know, here we work through an embassy and so we're mixed with State department and the military. And then, you know, there's like this whole jumble of people, but they are having similar experiences, but still very different. When I first got here and someone can clock, oh, you have kids, they're going to school, he's the service member.

[00:08:24] The assumption was, I don't do anything and I am a stay-at-home mom, and I got no questions about what do you do? , like, you know, what do you do for your career? Yeah. Or anything. And I, I could've been, I could've just been being really hypersensitive, like maybe they were thinking it, and it just doesn't come out of their mouth, but it's also happening from women.

[00:08:45] That's important to Yeah. To say it well, well, you just, you just said it yourself. And, and I'm not blaming you. I'm saying I do it, I do it too. Like whether or not it's being projected or I'm perceiving things that aren't even [00:09:00] there, but. But they are, there we're, we're doing it. You just said, they, they think, I'm not doing anything.

[00:09:07] I'm, I'm just taking care of the house, or whatever words you said. That's basically what you said, which is how I think and how you think, but it's how we feel. It's not how we think. I don't know, like, like I know how much work it is to take care of the house and, and kids. and that should be enough if the family has decided that's your role.

[00:09:29] but you and I are feeling offended when people think that that's all we do, because we're calling it quote all, as if it's not enough. But it should be enough if has a family decided. Yeah, if the family has decided that it's enough. , but we are in families where we've decided that that's not enough.

[00:09:50] Mm-hmm. . But we are continually put in this position where we need to temporarily or altogether shelve [00:10:00] desires and motivations and goals for the betterment of taking care of the household or taking care of the family. . Yeah. So, and that's hard cause we have these big goals and then, and then to be, have your snow day or sick day or whatever where you can't work on any of your goals and you just have to take care of the kids.

[00:10:21] That's, that's really tough on me. And it sounds the same for you. Yeah. And I will, I will say that like I'm just.

[00:10:31] even though I just became a full-time parent with the stepkids, there were still plenty of occasions where they were visiting us or we were visiting them where I was still default primary caregiver because of work implications that he had. I can't tell you how many times we've been technically on T D Y, but we're also visiting with the kids and he's done.

[00:10:57] He's working. , like it's not [00:11:00] and I was also working like trying to work remotely, but you know that the caregiving has to go to somebody when there's an emergency. And when our service members do really, and I don't know what Rachel does, but like when they do really important, sometimes heavy and life altering work, and sometimes they do busy work and desk work.

[00:11:27] Like it doesn't, it all feels, it all feels important. It all gets to feel important. Mm-hmm. , it all gets to feel more important than something else and mm-hmm. it. , I love, you know, and I've been one of those people online to say this, like, I, I love that people are attempting to change the narrative around that.

[00:11:52] And to say that like you military spouse, you have dreams, you have goals, you have things that you wanna do, and [00:12:00] sometimes entrepreneurship is the answer to like all of those things. And there's still this huge reality check of you can pursue them and we will, we are going to pursue them. Yeah. And just like you said, if there is a snow day or some shit goes down, you have to put it on hold.

[00:12:23] So Yeah. That just reminds me of, of, the, the saying about, Women in per, in the time since the 1950s or whatever, where, oh, you can do anything now. And it's like, no, you have to do everything now. And yeah. And that's kind of what you're, you're getting as the military spouse. It's like, oh, okay. You don't feel like just being a military spouse is enough anymore.

[00:12:49] So, So now you gotta also start a business and, and your business has to be super meaningful and, and you still gotta be the primary caregiver for your kids. And [00:13:00] you gotta be on Instagram every day or else you're not gonna have any followers. So you gotta do that still on the snow day. So you can't even enjoy pulling your kids around in the snow, cuz you.

[00:13:11] Pull your hand out and get a darn video of how much fun you're having with your kids. The content, the content.

[00:13:22] Yeah. That, that shift in language of like, now you have to do everything. Mm-hmm. is, wow. That kind of hit me in my gut when you said that. I was like, oh my god. Yeah, we do, we do like, do everything. Yeah. I'm definitely not the first person to have said that, but I, I think that's, it's very true and and hard for, for many women to juggle that.

[00:13:49] And, and I, I see that with my wife too. It's like, yes, I am claiming to be primary parent, but I'll, I'll give her credit, like she [00:14:00] does more work around the kids and family than I imagine. Almost any, male service member does. and that's just from like the, the motherly demands, I guess, and mm-hmm. And she feels the pressure too, like, like she's got all the pressures of, of military career while also feeling a lot of pressures as a mother too, to be a good mother and taking care of the family.

[00:14:25] Because even though she is by default the, the primary worker, she's still. Getting a lot of the pressure of, of needing to take care of certain things and maybe, maybe I'm not picking enough slack there. . I don't think that's the case. Much , I don't think that's the case, but I do think that, you know, kids are, they go to their parents for different things and those divisions kind of naturally happen and.

[00:14:57] just because she is the one working a [00:15:00] full-time job doesn't mean that they don't have the needs anymore and that they still might want to go to her for those specific things. Yeah. So yeah, that, that reminds me of, of yesterday sometimes. Sometimes Levi, our three year old, he's very particular on. , which parent?

[00:15:18] He wants to do certain things, whether it's take him to school or feed him some food or wipe his butt, any of any of the above. Sometimes he is, he wants one or the other. And yesterday, I was going to meet my wife at daycare. It's close enough that I can walk. It's like 10 minutes or something. . I was walking over there to, to get the kids and, and my wife was gonna meet us thereafter, work and drive us home.

[00:15:42] And she got caught up. She was, she was late, so we had to bundle up and walk back in the 30 degrees. But to make it all worse, Levi's like screaming at me. I didn't want daddy to pick me up. I don't want mommy to pick me up. I'm like, great . I'm like picking [00:16:00] up the slack here, taking you home. And I'm having my kid like scream at me for.

[00:16:04] Not wanting me to be the one to be doing this work for him. , yes. Those ungrateful little shits. I mean, . Yeah, . Yeah, he, that sounds about right. . Yeah. I, I mean it's, she's, she's in one of these times, like you mentioned your husband, where. Hospital is, switching their entire, like computer systems over. so it's been months building up to it and this has been like go live week.

[00:16:33] So she was working all weekend, and then long days. and so you can see it taking a toll on, on the kids too, where they're really clingy to her whenever she's around and really sad whenever they wake up and she's gone already. That kind of. . Yeah. Well, and your kids are so young too, so it's, yeah. One and three.

[00:16:54] Yeah. That's a different level of understanding. I mean, [00:17:00] ours are 14 and about to be 12, and so they still have a ton of needs, but they're a little more forgiving when it's like, Hey, your dad's working late. So even just preparing to record this episode, I'm like, Hey, you're on your own for dinner.

[00:17:18] Here's the options that you can make. I'm recording from six 30 to seven 30. Please don't come in . Please keep the dogs quiet. If they do start barking and like all of these instructions and I can feel that they're about to ask me, well, when's dad gonna get home? And then I'm like, dad is coming home late tonight, so, and I just need your help to like, , you know, keep, keep all of this straight basically.

[00:17:43] And like when I'm done with my recording, the chores also must be done. Like, just , please, please keep it going. and they, they have disappointment over that. and they're also like way more likely to, not express it in the way that a three year old would . [00:18:00] Sometimes it's a little more. quiet and it's a little more in the body language, and then it's like, okay.

[00:18:07] Like, I know, but he's been, he's been home every evening for weeks at this point. So one late night we're okay.

[00:18:17] so speaking of the kids, I was trying to just jot down some questions that I wanted to ask you. And this was right before , right before our interview. And Eva, the 14 year old was sitting here. I was like, Hey, so what is it that you would ask a male military spouse? And I was like, so like me, , but a man.

[00:18:41] And she was like, No hesitation whatsoever. What does it feel to be like with, to be with a powerful woman,

[00:18:54] I was like, okay. Can we, so I rephrased the question just [00:19:00] a little bit to make it a little bit more, pretty great, a little more palatable. my version, which she hates, I read it back to her. She was like, that's too formal. How does it feel to be in a role that has historically been filled by women and how does it feel to be married by someone in a male dominated industry?

[00:19:20] And she was like, that's boring. I like my mine better. , . When was the second part of your question and how does it, and how does it feel to be married to someone in a male dominated industry? Oh.

[00:19:39] I mean, we kind of already went over it, but , I, I like her question . Yeah. But it, it, hmm. I, I think that does go into like everything we were talking about so far of, of it being hard to feel fulfilled. do I like being married to a powerful woman?[00:20:00] 

[00:20:02] Well, it means I have to support and she's not supporting me. And so traditionally, from what society's telling me, and whether it's society or genetics or, or my upbringing, I don't know, but, but everything internally about me is, is like revolting. It's saying I need to be the one who's important and, and how am I.

[00:20:30] Logically, I say, yes, it's a good idea to support your wife. We, I could, when we made the decision, I could tell that it was important to her to keep her career. And I thought I could keep mine and I realized I was wrong. But we decided to, to do, do that. And I came up with alternatives of ways that I could be fulfilled and, pursuing them.

[00:20:52] But it's a constant struggle of trying to. To support her and knowing that in order for her to truly [00:21:00] succeed, she needs my support and she cannot give me the support that I need in order to truly be as successful as I could be. So it, it feels like a sacrifice that I'm constantly struggling with. I'm, I'm sacrificing my, my own ambitions to support her.

[00:21:23] and I think it's, these are things that women have always felt supporting their male. It's just a little more expected by society when it's the the male working, So, yeah, we wanna have it all. We, she wants to be a successful person. She wants to support the family. I wanna be a successful person. I, we, we all want it all.

[00:21:47] And it's, and so I think sacrifice is, is the best word. And I think that's from, from all parts, from her and from me. We're, we're wanting it all and, and sacrificing what we can't [00:22:00] get. Yeah. . Well, I won't tell her the answer to that question. , don't worry, she'll, she won't listen to this . I do think it's interesting though, that I didn't say anything about you.

[00:22:20] Just that you were a male military spouse and that you were married to a woman in the military. She automatically assumed. That, that means your wife holds a certain status and amount of power. Mm-hmm. . And that isn't always true, . Well, she might, she might just have the impression that every service member is a powerful person.

[00:22:44] And that's true kind of the way that the military presents itself and, and every way that they try to present themselves. I mean, you watch the commercials and whether it's the E one, new recruits. , they're powerful people. [00:23:00] Yeah, true. It's a, it's a, well, it's always like portrayed as like being physically domineering as well, and so we don't typically assign that kind of characteristic.

[00:23:14] Yeah. To a woman. There are plenty of like niches and industries where we would, and the military is probably one of them, but I have no idea what your wife does. I have no idea if she's actually a powerful person and if she's in charge. I don't know. I don't, I also don't have the context of like, Rank and where she's at in her career.

[00:23:34] Yeah. And like I know nothing about any of that and neither does my stepdaughter, but she still just assumed that it was all there . I, I don't think it matters because, it, it matters in, in a few cases of, of the. , the spouses have the couple, the couple having unequal histories, like, like such as [00:24:00] one's a lot older than the other or had like a much higher career.

[00:24:02] But if the, if the couple's fairly on par in age and life experience and stuff, it, it's the same. So if, if you're a general spouse, like you're older and you're assumed to have like your own huge career and. You don't, you have a huge supportive role and, and if you're, just married outta high school, you're, you're expected to have go on the college maybe, or, or maybe just been working some hourly job and instead you're not working your job.

[00:24:36] You're, you're supporting your, your spouse. But it's, it's kind of on, I think either way you're sacrificing what you would've had to. Your, your spouse. Yeah. Well, and that, well, my, well, my answer definitely makes me feel a little bit bad about not appreciating what all I gain of time with the [00:25:00] kids and stuff, and I.

[00:25:03] I'll, I'll throw that back. At our mindset about everything though, we're like constantly focused on everything we can achieve that it's then seeing all the losses of what you're not, what you're failing at doing, instead of focusing on on the positives that you have, which is. Why, being grateful matters so much and I should probably focus more on that.

[00:25:30] Well, we can all use a little bit more of that, but I also don't think that we are going to change anything in this community by talking about how great it is and talking about all of the positives. I think the most compelling conversations are ones that we just had where. We're discussing downsides and we're discussing the challenges because you are normalizing challenges for any male military spouse [00:26:00] who's listening to this.

[00:26:01] And hopefully what we're also going to get to is like what changes we see that need to be made within this community so that. , your challenges aren't like three times more than mine as a female because what I've known about male military spouses, and you are one of, you're partly, the reason, for knowing that is that isolation is often a lot greater because.

[00:26:34] If society and even our own community is looking down on you for being a male military spouse, how many events are you really gonna wanna go to? How many connections are you really going to want to make? And we also have to talk about like the implications of that being a , like cisgendered white, straight male, and then hanging out with a bunch of women.

[00:26:58] As your friends, like, [00:27:00] that has impacts on a marriage as well. And so I just see it as a lot of barriers upon barriers that were already there. And I wanna know from you what we can do to, to help you. What do we, what do you need that you aren't getting? I'd say what I need is all the things that I'm working on in my, in my initiatives for personal connection. What, what I care about is having these types of conversations and, and, friendships. And it's not about, I, I don't mean this conversation about like on a podcast with people listening. I just mean talking to somebody about how life's going.

[00:27:46] Yeah. and I think that's not a male thing. like you said, the males, I think is true. Like the, the things that we feel are the same as the things that the women feel. They're just sometimes a little [00:28:00] bit worse. Having a sense of belonging is always hard for military spouses because you're moving around a lot.

[00:28:07] For men, it might be a little bit worse because you're also, you, you're a little bit more of a misfit. the, the need for for friends as you're moving around might be, I don't know if it's harder for men. I think it's different for men. . I think we have a harder time making connections and we need connections a little bit less, so might balance out, I don't know, I don't need to say which one's worse or better.

[00:28:33] They're just a little bit different. I, I do think men find fewer friends, but I, I think in general they're okay with fewer friends, but I think both men and women spouses are not getting the friendships that they need. Mm-hmm. . . And so I, I see it kind of the same, kind of equal equalizer I guess. Yeah.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] Like the struggle is the same, but sometimes first, well, I think, I think we often try to, compare like. judge things as worse or better a little bit too often. And a great example of that is the, the struggles between, a couple. You've got the service member and the spouse and the service members complaining about all their struggles, saying it's so much harder.

[00:29:23] And the spouse staying at home who's bored and unfulfilled and also boggled down by all the tasks says this is so much harder. And they're both in, in saying, this is harder. You're belittling the other person's. challenges. And instead you just need to say, this is hard, and I see what you're doing is hard.

[00:29:42] And just like the, there's, there's no need for the harder, you just stop at, this is hard. This is, yeah. There's no need for the hardship Olympics. 

Matthew Shanks: Yeah, exactly. And so I think I, I don't usually try to say what's worse. I just say [00:30:00] this, this. . This is a challenge for people. And so with all my, friendships and connection stuff, I don't, I don't focus on men at all.

[00:30:11] I, I try to reduce the barriers for men. So like when you're on my, friend making app and you're swiping along, you've got the settings to choose if you're comfortable being friends with the opposite, or, I think I, I have, I'm not best with the. the right words to be. You're, you've got all the right terms, , non-binary and, and stuff.

[00:30:35] we're talking about gender . Yeah, I think I have it. So you can pick, like, you can, you're comfortable being friends with your gender only, or, or are other genders? mm-hmm. , and you can pick if you're male, female, or. Not so simple or something. I forget what I put as the third option. but anyway, I think it's really important that people can choose [00:31:00] who they're comfortable being friends with.

[00:31:01] Because as a, as a male, I don't wanna be chatting up some women who are not comfortable being friends with guys. That's, it's already uncomfortable enough, not, not. feeling like you're hitting on somebody just for trying to make friends. But if they're uncomfortable with it, you want them to be able to like say so without having to say so like

[00:31:29] Hmm. It'd be very awkward if they had to just come out and be like, no, I will not be friends with you. I'm not comfortable with it. But in the settings it applies those filters anyway. Mostly I don't focus on, on male specific. I just focus on how can spouse. Make better personal connections. and I, I think the answer all comes down to personal connections and not big group connections.

[00:31:56] If we had sat down in a group of 12 people, [00:32:00] I would've talked very little. I wouldn't have been myself nearly as much. I wouldn't have been comfortable, like it is just bigger groups. where I can connect with people. And that's predominantly how things in the military spouse connection world work is, is Yeah, it's a club.

[00:32:21] It's a coffee chat. It's a, yeah. You know? Exactly. Yeah. It's always a group setting . It's always, it's always a group setting. Sometimes there's small groups and, and if it's small enough, then, then that's where I like it. but, but I want people to know each. and I want them to, have, have the option to meet a lot of people.

[00:32:46] S in, in military spouse community, you, you're kind of stuck with the first friends. You get , you go to the first coffee chat and there's the 12 people and you're like, okay, I guess these are my 12 friends. And you [00:33:00] settle so fast because like you get what you can get. I, I want people to be able to be exposed to way more potential friends so that they can find people who they really resonate with.

[00:33:12] and usually there's a bunch of barriers against that, like location and schedules and, and how do you break the ice? And those are all the things that I try to address with, my programs and events and apps and, and stuff. Trying to let people. Find the people that they like talking to and enable them to talk to them whenever they need that connection.

[00:33:38] Yeah. Well, and you're also increasing frequency because it's, yes. It's so much more, Mill, spouse friendly. cuz you know, I'm also imagining like just keeping in contact with the people that you really did enjoy making connections with at that duty station. And you weren't there long enough. They weren't there long enough.

[00:33:55] It sucks, but you want that person to remain in your [00:34:00] life and, yeah. , you can try through social media and sometimes that is really effective for people to keep like tabs on one another. . Yeah, but that's not, it's a good way to like watch pictures of their kids growing bigger but not really. Yeah. Yeah. It's not,

[00:34:18] It isn't connecting like what you're trying to achieve, that it's not that one-on-one connection. It's a one to many connection cuz you're Yeah, putting this out toward a bunch of people at one time and people are commenting and you're like, okay cool. I got my little validation hit. And then you move on.

[00:34:35] It doesn't actually feel like connecting a lot of the time. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a little validation of, okay, people saw what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. . Well, I also wanted to ask you a question and , Ava had thoughts on how to phrase this question as well. her, hers, mine was way too personal. She was like, [00:35:00] no, you need to

[00:35:01] So we were opposite this time I was too personal. She's like, you need to rephrase this. I was like, oh, okay. . Okay. Thank you. how does being. a military spouse, but a male military spouse. I still think that element is really important, but how does being in this role affect your mental health? Because you know what life was like before being a spouse, so, Yeah.

[00:35:33] Answer is, and what was your question? I gotta know your version of the question. . How's your mental health? How are you ? Yeah. It was more like, how's your mental health? And she was like, that's too personal. And I was like, yeah. It is kind of personal to ask somebody on a public forum like a podcast, but I also think it's really powerful to be able to say, I am not doing well or I have not done well in the past.

[00:35:59] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. [00:36:00] well, I don't know who your listeners are and, and, generally I'm fine being pretty open. it's, it's been hard and I've not been in a good space for a lot of the last two and a half years. That's not necessarily military spouse as it is the combination of entrepreneurial endeavors mixed with military spouse.

[00:36:28] Matthew Shanks: I think it's more the first, because my first few years as a, as a spouse, I mean the first three years, of knowing Rachel dating and then getting married for the ending part of that. I was just working my engineering job and, and I had my. Things and she had hers and, and there weren't too many times when her, her career affected me beyond, like me wanting to take more trips and having [00:37:00] to plan them out around when she could get leaves.

[00:37:03] Matthew Shanks: That was about it. . Yeah. And then the next duty station, when I had left that career, I was then immersed in my new world of triathlon coaching. and I was, I was racing a lot myself and doing training camps, and I kept busy. it was, it was good. I didn't feel like I was sacrificing anything really.

[00:37:22] Matthew Shanks: and then it was the combination of. of bigger dreams, having kids, covid, isolation, those all together. a lot of it comes back to, to that desire for purpose and fulfillment. and I am, I'm happy to support my wife, but I'm, but I'm not willing to give up or I'm not willing to give up without being depressed.

[00:37:50] Matthew Shanks: This idea that I need to do something great with my life and I haven't been able to fully embrace that. Supporting my wife can be a great thing. [00:38:00] I think that it should be able to be a great thing. But for me personally, I just can't make that, like I, I wanna do something more. And by having, the idea for my, my first app, I saw how.

[00:38:14] Matthew Shanks: I could have everything I possibly dreamed of. I thought of how, I could start up my own business. That would be insanely profitable in time, but more than that, I saw a way of. Solving a, a huge problem for, for the world. I saw, an app that could prevent like hundreds of thousands of suicides and, and that's like on the serious side.

[00:38:40] Matthew Shanks: And, and just like improve people's overall happiness on a massive, massive, massive level. that's the potential that I see for my first app Co. because it, it enables people when they're in their low spot to connect with a personal conversation. Just like you and I are talking [00:39:00] right now, it's incredibly satisfying to talk to one person about something meaningful.

[00:39:07] Matthew Shanks: And normally you have to schedule that out, but with Kovii you like go available to your small circle of friends and the person who most wants to talk to you at that one moment calls you. So it enables connection. between two people who both wanna talk anytime. And I see that as more revolutionary than any of our current social apps, , and I can see that changing the world.

[00:39:32] Matthew Shanks: so that's, that's like so, so satisfying to me to be able to make that huge impact while also being somebody that people look up to. Like it's the complete opposite of somebody looking at you and they're, then they're just like, oh, you're just a stay-at-home spouse. Like this is a complete opposite of that.

[00:39:53] Matthew Shanks: and so I had those huge hopes and then two and a half years of little spurts of [00:40:00] hope of. , okay. It's working. I'm getting some traction, but not, and, and so it's just a rollercoaster ride and a downward rollercoaster of, as the time goes on, it's not like Kobe has any less chance of it, of it working, other than I've spent two and a half years trying to get it to take off.

[00:40:18] Matthew Shanks: And while we have users, it's not, it's not taking off. so it's, it's, it's polarizing. I've got huge potential of what I. and I'm constantly failing to reach it, and so two and a half years of fail, failing over and over and over is completely draining.

[00:40:37] Matthew Shanks: which negatively impacts your mental health? No, my mental health is not good. After two and a half of trying and failing

[00:40:50] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, I don't mean to laugh, but just the delivery to all that was . Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's helpful to express it. yeah, yeah, [00:41:00] yeah. Well, and I think that, , that sense of fulfillment and purpose that we are attempting to fulfill through entrepreneurship. and not just, you know, through your app, through the journey of entrepreneurship.

[00:41:17] Jayla Rae Ardelean: and it's not just through the Enneagram, for me, it's through the journey of like, of coaching and speaking and like there's always like the bigger. Picture. but I agree when you're not reaching the bigger picture, , and you also are having a hard time supporting your spouse, and you're also having a hard time being the primary caregiver, and you're also maybe not in your healthiest state, like physically.

[00:41:47] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. Just speaking, speaking for myself, like I know I'm not as. Physically healthy as I could be right now. well, I, I was racing as a pro triathlete and now I'm not exercising at all. Okay. So we're in the same, yeah, we're [00:42:00] in the same boat. it, when all of those things attach together, it, it sinks . Yeah.

[00:42:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. It's just, it's just too many things to be trying and you wanna do it all and it's great to try maybe. . But when when you try a million things and you fall short of your expectations on all of them, then it doesn't feel good, right? So what are, what are we doing, Matt, to improve our mental health? How are we helping each other,

[00:42:34] Jayla Rae Ardelean: How are we helping ourselves? 

[00:42:40] Matthew Shanks: Well, I don't wanna leave on this note of like, this is why friends matter so much because it like talking to talking to people and having a good friend makes, makes everything better, makes the good things better, your successes, being able to share 'em. and when things are going bad, it feels better to share it.

[00:42:56] Matthew Shanks: and, and I think it, it matters that, [00:43:00] on these one-on-one personal connections. And this one's a little bit different cuz this is being publicized. But, when you're in a big group or on social media, It's, it's all got a tinge of fake to it, whether, I mean, it's like a competition for who can be more real and, but it's still a competition.

[00:43:19] Matthew Shanks: Like Yeah. Which defeats the purpose. So , right? And if you're in a group of 12, you're still talking, maybe you're speaking to one person at, of at one moment, but you've got a bunch of people listening, so you're worried about that judgment. So I, I really. Personal one-on-one or really small groups. talking and building friends is, is something that can help everything.

[00:43:47] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, I agree. , I'm really glad we got to chat today. Not just to talk about our mental health, but also and entrepreneurship and the struggles, but, because we haven't [00:44:00] talked in so long and I wanted to reach out so many times, and yes, you need to get on CO and pop available when you're washing the dishes and, and I'll call you.

[00:44:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I will. I will . We also have laundry, laundry club, starting with the military spouse thing where, where it's just like twice a week fold laundry and video chat and a group of up to four people. Oh my God. Yes. 

[00:44:25] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I was saying that sounds like a really good idea to help me stay accountable to actually like finishing the laundry, cuz I know that's like a human struggle, like washing it, folding it, and putting away back to back feels like a gigantic feat when it's done.

[00:44:41] Matthew Shanks: Well, this, this forces you, if you stick to it, it ma it gives you incentive to wash and dry your laundry like before. The times when we're having it. And then it gives you a reason to procrastinate, folding, which is awesome, . And then it gives you [00:45:00] like a few people to chat with while you're folding laundry rather than just like staring at the wall or, or you could listen to a podcast or something too.

[00:45:08] Matthew Shanks: But, yeah, I'm always, you mentioned. , the male military spouse has boundaries on or barriers on barriers on barriers. And that's barriers is always what I'm thinking about. Like what is preventing somebody? And usually I'm like reflecting on myself, what is preventing me from talking to somebody right now?

[00:45:27] Matthew Shanks: And, and to just call somebody like, , that's out of the question. That's just weird. And you can only call like two people that like your mom and like your best friend. That's like it. but, but like how can, how can we make conversation accessible to people? How can we make friendships accessible? How can we make the next step in a first conversation?

[00:45:50] Matthew Shanks: Like, like, okay, you, you, you meet your. somebody at daycare or you meet, somebody at the coffee chat or, or like get together for spouses. But then how [00:46:00] do you do like the asking them on a second date type thing without feeling as awkward as asking somebody on a second date? Like there's, there's like a few parents at school, at, at Levi's daycare, that like, I wanna invite over to hang out.

[00:46:17] Matthew Shanks: but I've been like tiptoeing around it for like a few weeks cuz I feel so awkward like asking for somebody's like phone number to hang out. Like it just, it's just weird. And so I'm always, yeah, with our, with the apps, I'm always trying to identify like, what feels weird about this and how can we eliminate that?

[00:46:36] Matthew Shanks: How can we make it natural to get past those initial stages of getting to know somebody? and then how can we make it natural to continue talking to them after you move duty stations and, and whatever. Like, don't lose your friends just cuz you move. You don't need, some people need in person, but like a good friend's worth keeping [00:47:00] if you just video chat with them.

[00:47:01] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. 

[00:47:02] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I mean we as video chat has just become like more and more essential in the workplace. Like it's, yeah. , it's much more common for people to use it. but it also, I will say it also feels really exciting to think about using video chat on an app interface that I've not previously like used a ton because I'm fatigued in other areas.

[00:47:30] Matthew Shanks: Yeah

[00:47:32] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Using this platform right now, I'm like, oh man, this is, you know, this is great for podcasting, but I, I, you know, I wouldn't say to somebody like, can we set up a Zoom chat? You know? 

[00:47:46] Matthew Shanks: Well, no, you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that because it feels too official. You need too much of a reason. In order to have this, you had to like invite me to be a podcast guest, and then you had to wait a month for me to not reply, and then you had to like, check up on me and it's all good.

[00:47:59] Matthew Shanks: And then like a [00:48:00] week later I was like, oh yeah, sorry for ignoring you . Like, it, it took a long time to have this, but, but if instead. Well, yesterday, yesterday the house was a mess. It's always a mess. It's a mess again now, but the, there's like three of my son's puzzles out and the counter is full of dishes.

[00:48:20] Matthew Shanks: and I'm like, well, I don't want to just like roam around my house and clean it so I can either, put on an audiobook or podcast or radio or something, or. and this is what I did. I went available on Kovii and then one of my friends who I met through, through the mill social app, she called and we chatted for like an hour and a half while I cleaned the house.

[00:48:42] Matthew Shanks: So, yeah, it's nice. 

[00:48:45] Jayla Rae Ardelean: It's, it's a much more meaningful way to spend your time cuz I'm, I'm also right there, like, I'm in a place where, I've never really enjoyed cooking, and now I am like a hundred percent responsible for four. [00:49:00] Humans used to just be two, and now it's four humans who need to be fed and including myself and my husband, and I hate cooking.

[00:49:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I hate it. And I literally texted, a, well actually it wasn't texting, it was through Voxer, sent a Voxer message to two of my buddies and I was like, I'm literally about to put noise canceling headphones on to disassociate to Metallica in order to cook this meal that I absolutely do not want to prepare.

[00:49:29] Jayla Rae Ardelean: but my time would've been so much better spent if I had like called somebody and if I used just those few moments to connect with someone else, because that's actually what I needed in that moment too. I was having like a bad mental health moment and I knew I was self-aware enough to know I have to disassociate from this moment.

[00:49:49] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. And it would've, it would've been better to spend the time in, in connection versus [00:50:00] further isolation. Yeah. And, 

[00:50:03] Matthew Shanks: you know, yeah, well that's, that's the thing about connection is, is it's a, it's a mood and a need for, for connection and it's not always a person you need to talk to. So, so for Levi, my three-year-old, he'll be.

[00:50:19] Matthew Shanks: I wanna talk to my cousin and he's got like 14 of 'em or something like that. So is it one cousin that he really wants to talk to or is it any of those cousins? And one cousin might be in the middle of music lesson and another one might be eating dinner. And another one might be like bored for doing who knows what and available.

[00:50:42] Matthew Shanks: And so we could go through the phone and start calling through his cousins to see who answers. Their parents are, they don't have phones themselves, or this example still 

[00:50:52] Jayla Rae Ardelean: applies . 

[00:50:54] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. We can just toggle available to our like, [00:51:00] Cousin circle, on the app and say, Levi wants to video chat with somebody and then whoever happens to be free calls.

[00:51:07] Matthew Shanks: And so for you, you're in this like kind of grumpy stage of you, you're doing something you don't want to do and you like to vent a little bit. You don't wanna go available to like your aunts and uncles. You only wanna, you like, probably don't really talk to them much at all. And you don't wanna go available to like your business associates cuz you gotta be like nice and professional to them.

[00:51:26] Matthew Shanks: But you've got like a core group of venting friends. So you could create a circle call venting friends and toggle available to them. but it's, it's just based off of, of mood. So on another mood you could be. Hey, I haven't networked with some of my past podcast guests recently. I should catch up with them so you could have a past podcast guest circle and.

[00:51:52] Matthew Shanks: Put a status of, I've got 20 minutes. What have you been up to? Toggle available to them. so that's the point. It's when you wanna talk to [00:52:00] somebody, it's usually not one person. If you need to talk to one person, then you text or email and schedule a time or just cold call and leave a message. But if you wanna talk to one person of a group, then that's what Kobe is.

[00:52:17] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I love that. Yeah. Thank you for the reminder. I will log back into the app , which has said that I've been unavailable for much too long. 

[00:52:26] Matthew Shanks: Yeah, it doesn't have like reminding notifications to get back on, which is one of the reasons why retention is low. . 

[00:52:36] Jayla Rae Ardelean: yes, cuz there are people out there. I'm not one of these people, but there are people out there who just download apps and like, , they never really use them.

[00:52:44] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Like they explore it one time and then it's gone 

[00:52:47] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. I mean, how people use apps varies a lot. But, a, any new app is facing huge challenges because, Facebook and [00:53:00] Snapchat and TikTok have like billions of dollars put into them to make them insanely addictive. And, and I'm just working on my own budget , that's so low.

[00:53:09] Matthew Shanks: Fromer. And so like each, each thing, like setting up some sort of email notification reminder, like, like that's, that's a challenge. and, and yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to get people to adapt how they function and. Like people like my idea, but it's hard to get it actually in use. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:53:33] Jayla Rae Ardelean: yeah. That makes sense.

[00:53:35] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And but you don't necessarily like want your interface to be addictive, right? Or ? 

[00:53:41] Matthew Shanks: Well, you need it to be addictive in the sense, well, in this case, how bad would it be to be addictive to calling your friends like ? True. But it, it's not the other, the other apps are all meant to absorb your time on that app.

[00:53:57] Matthew Shanks: Kovii is intended to [00:54:00] hopefully go to it frequently, anytime you wanna talk to somebody and you just toggle available and then you close the app and you receive a call within a few minutes, hopefully with from one of your friends. that's how it should work. It's not supposed to be addictive and just like scrolling videos.

[00:54:17] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. 

[00:54:18] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. No, I see it. I see it. I'm always rooting for you. and I have been rooting for you even though we have not spoken in quite some time. I have. I have thought. , I should really just reach out to say, Hey, because you know how we like build this up in our minds and we're like, oh, we have to say the right things.

[00:54:40] Jayla Rae Ardelean: We have to say like, this is why I haven't reached out in a while. Or like, yeah, this is nothing personal. It has nothing to do with you. I've lost touch with a few people. Or like, we feel like we have to say all these things. 

[00:54:51] Matthew Shanks: We have to justify. 

[00:54:52] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah, we have to justify 'em. We have to give all these reasons and.

[00:54:56] Jayla Rae Ardelean: you are one of those people where I was like, I bet if I just reached out [00:55:00] and said, Hey, how you doing? It would be fine. yeah, but I still didn't do it because I was afraid that I would have to justify 

[00:55:06] Jayla Rae Ardelean: everything. 

[00:55:06] Matthew Shanks: And it's, it's those social expectations. It's also like who gets along with who, and I think that's quickly found out.

[00:55:17] Matthew Shanks: I. I think the first time I like, knew who you were. Somehow we had already like, followed each other on Instagram probably cause I was trying to grow some account or something. but, but, I was scrolling whatever shows videos, I, I forget what different things are called. And, and you like popped up and you.

[00:55:38] Matthew Shanks: Just out of the shower, like brushing your hair and like talking about, I don't remember what , I was like, this is weird, but like it, I don't, I don't know what you were talking about, but the way you were speaking, the way you were thinking or speaking or whatever. It was like, this is a person that like I'd feel comfortable around and talking with and could [00:56:00] understand like how I think and, and so it doesn't necessarily take long to.

[00:56:07] Matthew Shanks: Kind of, gauge who you fit with. yeah, and that's another thing I try to do with, with like speed friending events is let me get people talking to individuals at a higher frequency. Like don't just go to coffee chat and talk to like four people and once a month, or 12 people once a month, come to this event this week and talk to.

[00:56:29] Matthew Shanks: Six people and then next week talk to six more people and like constantly be talking to more people so you can find people you actually like instead of just settling 

[00:56:38] Matthew Shanks: down. 

[00:56:39] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. And you're improving, I mean, you're improving the ratio, so it's, it's only gonna like, improve your chances. yeah, ratio is not the right word.

[00:56:48] Jayla Rae Ardelean: It's gonna improve your chances. You're improving, you're increasing your sample size. I don't know math. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not very good at the maths. But yeah, and I think, actually, I think, [00:57:00] well, I know there was a Clubhouse conversation at some point and Joey was on that Clubhouse conversation. Well, I think there were several.

[00:57:08] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I think there were several that we all kind of participated in for Military spouses. 

[00:57:14] Matthew Shanks: And that was after your hair brushing video? 

[00:57:17] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. Cuz we did already follow each other on Instagram. And then I recognized your name and I was like, oh, this is someone I like already knew. But you know, we didn't know each other,

[00:57:25] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Right, right. We think we know each other when we see each other online. We don't, . But yeah, even just like, That, that almo, that almost like proves another point too. Like if we hadn't had two points of connection, right. We never would've made any kind of friendship whatsoever. Mm-hmm. . But because we had those two points and then we were also interested in each other's entrepreneurial journeys and we kind of like, okay, like I'm keeping tabs on you type of.

[00:57:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: [00:58:00] Or at least that's how I felt about your journey. I was like, this is really, I need to follow what's happening here. that improved the chances. But it, like, if you had just seen the hairbrush live, which I used to do on Instagram, , and we had never spoken to one another in that clubhouse room afterward, like that would've been it.

[00:58:19] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Mm-hmm. , it would've just been like, yeah. I mean, Matt's that one guy I've heard on a couple podcasts, but I don't know him. . , 

[00:58:26] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. You, you need, you need that first interaction and then there needs to be follow up interactions that happen somewhere, sometime. And for us, it took. The Instagram plus the clubhouse coincidence, and then a year or so later, that that email on your part to reach out

[00:58:45] Matthew Shanks: But it like, like there should, there should be able to be methods of like, making this work better. And that's what, what I'm after is, is helping people find meaningful connections. More efficiently. . 

[00:58:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. [00:59:00] Yeah. Way more efficiently alright, well I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today and also just speaking so candidly, because I think the, I don't know, the more conversations we have around.

[00:59:15] Jayla Rae Ardelean: the challenges. I just think there's a lot of power in naming them. and what we've proven here today is like just connecting with a friend online, even if it's for public consumption, benefited both of us , I feel like 10 times better than I did when I came in here because yeah, we had a lot to say and, and a lot to talk about.

[00:59:34] Jayla Rae Ardelean: . Also, I just think it's really important to name the challenges because you are, you're validating somebody who's listening to this and validation is really important, especially when you are, when you're struggling and you feel like you might be the only one who is, or that the challenges you're experiencing are so unique in some way and then you realize they are not

[00:59:56] Matthew Shanks: Yeah, . Well, belonging and [01:00:00] fulfillment and all that are certainly. Challenges that are, that any military spouse is facing alone? . . 

[01:00:08] Matthew Shanks: No, absolutely not. . well I will include all of the places that people can find you online. but is there a social that you hang out on more than the others? 

[01:00:20] Matthew Shanks: So, Instagram, I'll be on it for like a month every year.

[01:00:27] Matthew Shanks: So no, and to talk about the same. And Facebook, I'm there more often. so I, I'm pretty, those are like the first things I, I tune, tune out when I'm getting overwhelmed and yeah. And that's often, , but, but. I mean, the best things I would recommend is for people to check out military social network.org.

[01:00:49] Matthew Shanks: And from there you can find My Mills social app, which is, it's a web app and I'm currently working on creating it into, A, a better, stronger platform. but it works. It's [01:01:00] there. I'm just not updating it currently cuz I'm working on a complete rebuild. and then we've got the Facebook group, military spouses, dash meet new friends.

[01:01:09] Matthew Shanks: and then there's the co v app. Co V is K O V I I and it's on Apple devices only. Mill spatial is for, any device. so those are, those are what I offer. And we've got that laundry folding events and other hangouts and speed trendings happening on Mill Spatial. We've got some what club things coming up sometime when I finish developing that app, that's another app I'm working on.

[01:01:39] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, you're working on another app, Matt? What is happening? 

[01:01:42] Matthew Shanks: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Web apps are like building. A website kind of that's mobile friendly and you can add it to your home screen and it looks like an app, but it's still missing some critical things like push notifications, which are essential for.

[01:01:59] Matthew Shanks: [01:02:00] People remembering to use your app. and it's limited in size. So the current most social app is starting to get slow because it's grown as much as it has. So, in order for it to become a better app, I need to write it as. quote real app, a a native app. and Kobe I, which is fascinating.

[01:02:20] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I have no idea this is how it works.

[01:02:23] Matthew Shanks: Kobe. I initially hired a team to build and that took like years of my engineering salary savings to pay for, and that's part of why I've been so depressed is cuz I not only spent two and a half years not making money, but I also spent all my savings . So that was a, a. Lesson learned, . So with Mel Spatial, I've proven the concept works, people like it, but the app needs to be better and for me to make it better, I need to either find tens of thousands of dollars or I have to learn to develop it myself.

[01:02:56] Matthew Shanks: And so I'm opting for the latter, but that's. [01:03:00] taking half, half a bachelor's degree in computer science to learn how to develop apps. so that's kind of what I'm doing. I'm just spending lots of time learning how to code. and my learning app is a, is a book club app. so I'm, I'm building that while learning to make all my mistakes on that and

[01:03:26] Matthew Shanks: and it should be functional and be useful and be nice hopefully. But if it doesn't turn out, I'm not trying to like, like make the world a different place with it. So if it doesn't work out, I won't be depressed. we're 

[01:03:37] Jayla Rae Ardelean: like way less invested over 

[01:03:39] Matthew Shanks: there. Yeah. . Yeah. I'm keeping like my hopes for its success low and just focusing on the learning how to code aspect.

[01:03:46] Matthew Shanks: Well, it could be a really cool app. I'm like not focused on that aspect. And then once I finish that one, I'll be ready to rebuild no social, and give it a new name cuz I don't really like that name. It's just what we went with initially. It's working. [01:04:00] Yeah. So, so that's what's up with the different apps.

[01:04:04] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Thanks for giving us a rundown, . Yeah. alright, well I'll be seeing you, I'll be seeing you folding laundry probably. And have a great rest of your day. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing with everyone and I'll see you later. 

[01:04:21]Matthew Shanks: All right, thanks. Bye. Nice chatting.

Jayla Rae
Previous

Managing A Whole New Life as a Late Career Milspouse
Next

Making Milspouse Life Work for Her with Brittany Zimmerman