Single Mom in Construction Turned Late Career Milspouse With Tonia Rivers
Talking with Tonia felt like an inspiring pep talk on vulnerability, how to make career pivots, and relationship woes I didn't even know I needed! Please enjoy her spirit ♥️
Topics we cover:
👉🏻Where Tonia was at with her relationship history as a single mom when meeting her service member
👉🏻What it's like to be a black female mother in the construction industry, and how she pivoted to keep her career
👉🏻Her experience with seasoned spouses
👉🏻Tonia's beautiful permission slip to fellow Late Career Milspouses
—————————————————
Meet Tonia Rivers!
Tonia Rivers is the Owner and President of WLS Construction Consultants LLC and Founder of the nonprofit Mothers In Construction. She has a Bachelor of Architecture from Howard University and has 17 years of experience in the construction industry.
Tonia has been a critical team member in the management of over $1Billion in construction projects as both a senior project manager for large-scale general contractors in the Washington, DC area and as a key stakeholder of a Department of Defense federal agency managing MILCON projects across the Midwest region of the United States. Tonia's experiences span across several market sectors to include historic preservation and restoration, high-end commercial, marine construction, residential, institutional, federal, healthcare, and K-12 education.
She has also been instrumental in the development of young professionals who have utilized the skills learned to take on leadership roles at various organizations. Tonia 's ability to forge positive relationships with design professionals and subcontractor communities has led to the execution of successful projects across the nation.
Catch Tonia's The Mothers in Construction Podcast: https://anchor.fm/mothers-in-construction
Website: www.mothersincon.org
Instagram: instagram.com/mothersinconstruction
instagram.com/wls_construction_consultants
------------------------------------
The Heart of a Milspouse Podcast is hosted by Jayla Rae Ardelean, Late Career Milspouse Mentor.
Let's chat! @mil.spouse
—————————————————
Consider supporting the podcast below by buying me a coffee ❤️
TRANSCRIPT: Single Mom in Construction Turned Late Career Milspouse With Tonia Rivers
[00:00:00] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Heart of a Mill Spouse podcast. I am joined by a very special guest today as a part of the Late Career Mil Spouse series. I'm here with Tonia. Hi. Would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:00:16] Tonia Rivers: Yes, ma'am. Hey, I'm Tonia Rivers. Um, I am the executive director and founder of Mothers in Construction, which is a nonprofit dedicated to mothers in the construction industry.
[00:00:29] And I'm also the owner and president of W L S Construction Consultants, which is a consulting firm that provides training to small and disadvantaged businesses and I'm a military spouse. Mom of three. So very nice to be on here with you,
[00:00:44] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I don't even know how you do all of those things at the same time. That is for sure.
[00:00:49] Tonia Rivers: Me either.
[00:00:50] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, . Yeah. Barely, probably like barely getting through . Um, okay. So I'd love to know. Just a little bit of an intro to [00:01:00] how you and your husband met and where you guys were at in your life when you did meet, because that is the theme with late career spouses. Usually we're like on our own path, doing our own thing with our own careers.
[00:01:15] We're like getting our foot in the door and then we meet them and like , the rug gets pulled. Yeah. And everything just kinda. It goes downhill for a little while until we like get our speed back up and running. So if that matches your experience, I wanna know all about it.
[00:01:35] Tonia Rivers: So we have an interesting story, so put your seatbelt on.
[00:01:39] Oh, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. . Yeah, so again, I was, I'm a mother in construction and at the time when I met my husband, I was a single mom. I was a project manager managing a lot of projects in the construction industry, which in itself, just as a female in this industry is tough. But now let's tie on being a [00:02:00] single mom, managing projects, running teams, managing my child all alone. And I had gone through a really bad breakup and a friend of mine said, you know what? Won't you try online dating? And I'm like, girl. , I'm not gonna end up in some soup. that's what I called it. And I said, but she said, you know what, you can meet people in the street that you know you don't know, and they can surprise you.
[00:02:26] So I said, okay, you know what? I'll give it a try. Because for me, I was a all in mom. I wasn't one of those that would ship her child off everywhere just to hang out. So my son was on my hip. I mean, I had, I was everything for him. I had to advocate for him and I, I was, you know, his world. So he was, and he's my world.
[00:02:43] so I really didn't have the opportunity to meet a lot of people. So long story short, I, I tried the online dating thing and my last week of the subscription, because I was meeting some people that I was not impressed with, I was, um, gonna cancel my subscription and I get this poke from this [00:03:00] guy right. Now let's talk about my wants and my needs on this profile.
[00:03:06] No one younger than me. No one in the military because I could not imagine, right?
[00:03:12] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You said that?!
[00:03:12] Tonia Rivers: I could not that imagine said that, said it. Military, when they tell you the things that you don't want. It was my range. The military was out because I, first of all, I couldn't imagine that type of life and then no one in IT because everyone that I had met within communications background, they just were not good communicators.
[00:03:30] So he was just all in the nose. and, and I remember getting this email that said, well this person is out of your range, but you should consider it. I'm like, yeah, whatever. And I get this poke from this man. And you know, long story short, we started talking and, and it was history. You know, he was in another country at the time.
[00:03:51] And what that did was it gave us the ability to talk for four months every day for hours on end. So by the time I'd met him, [00:04:00] it was like I had known him my entire life. You know, we talked about our dreams, our goals and everything. And when I met him, he was who he said he was, you know? So, For me it was very different because that's a different way of meeting someone, right?
[00:04:14] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh yeah.
[00:04:15] Tonia Rivers: Think about talking to someone for four months. You can't see 'em, you can't touch 'em, you know? But I think that that really established our love and we got married in under the, under a year.
[00:04:27] Jayla Rae Ardelean: What?!
[00:04:30] Tonia Rivers: --Single mom, and he didn't have any children, so it was, it was just a, a, just a whirlwind of events and love and just getting to know each other and everything.
[00:04:40] So that was my story. Yes, I was on my own path, life in construction. And then I met my husband online and, and so he was going to PCS to my area. Um, oh. Right. So then again, I, I'm a, I'm, we'll talk about this. Um, I call myself a, a cheat, uh, um, mil [00:05:00] spouse because we stayed in that area for five years, . So that's in a's ok different area.
[00:05:05] Jayla Rae Ardelean: That's okay. Like the experience is still very much valid. Okay.
[00:05:10] Tonia Rivers: Yes. So that's our story.
[00:05:14] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Wow. So actually your husband and I have something in common. We are both stepparents and, okay. This is. , I didn't realize we were gonna get to talk about this today, and I don't want you to have to like speak on behalf of him.
[00:05:30] But blending a family is no joke. And putting the transition of you entering military life, um, getting married in under a year, and I'm assuming not really having a background with the military at all, because you were like, no, I'm not doing that. You made it really clear on your profile, and then him becoming a stepparent and y'all PCSing, well, him PCSing to you, but still like [00:06:00] what this sounds like too much. Too much is on the plate.
[00:06:08] Tonia Rivers: I'm gonna be really transparent here. Um, I went through a really bad breakup and my heart was broken. So for me, now being a, a, a single mom, having my heart just r literally ripped a shreds and now having to trust someone, right? and my husband's in the military and his particular position, uh, required him to travel a lot.
[00:06:29] So now you'd really trust him because he's away all the time. Um, and then yes, he transitioned. He came to into our lives. And my son at the time was a little over two years old, like almost three. So now you're talking about going from zero children to a terrible two year old who was really hyperactive.
[00:06:49] My son had a speech delay, so there was a lot of things that we had to do to support him in, so he kind of walked in the door into like full-time father mode support mode [00:07:00] because he realized I didn't have the help. And you know, just for his, his love, he wanted to take over. Don't get me excited here and, and, and, you know, getting ready to cry, but he wanted to take off a lot of my burden.
[00:07:11] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Crying is welcome. . .
[00:07:14] Tonia Rivers: It. It was crazy. He wanted to take over my burden, but I'm gonna tell you that, um, for me, because of my baggage, I tried to push him away. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? You coming to Washington, dc You know how many women are here? Like you are in the military. You're young. You don't have any children.
[00:07:34] Like, what do you, what do you wanna do with me? You know? So just the fact that he stayed with me and stayed connected with me was just everything to me. And, and it was a lot because we'd, we'd learned each other on the phone, but it's different once you, now we're spending more time together and then we married early, and then we, we married and.
[00:07:53] This is another story. Our first daughter happened to come four days before we were supposed to get married. [00:08:00] So she was born, she just didn't wanna mind her business. She had to be at the wedding, right? . So so think about all this stress, like the military's already stressful, so he's going through all of these things and now you've got a, a son and, and now we have a newborn baby.
[00:08:15] And then we got married four days later and it was just a lot, but. I feel like we didn't have the time to really learn. We we're still learning each other through this, and we've been married for seven years. It just continued our journey and it helped us because it was very stressful at times.
[00:08:35] Right. To try to connect. It helped us learn how to communicate with one another, and it helped us tackle this military life journey because it's all about trust. It's all about communication. It's all about forward thinking of, all right, where do we, first of all, you can't plan where you're gonna live.
[00:08:51] Yeah, for three years. But let's at least have the same mindset and the same goals of how we're gonna raise our children. And if we go here, these are the things we're gonna do. And [00:09:00] so I think that, Rushed lifestyle kind of helped us and helped our union. You know, it helped us be better. Not that we're perfect and not that we don't have issues, we have lots of them.
[00:09:11] But, um, because of the way we started and it was so rocky, it allowed us the ability to cope because if we can get through that first two years of our marriage, we can get through anything.
[00:09:22] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that I've ever, um, Well, I don't know that I've ever said it on my podcast. Maybe I said it on someone else's, and I've definitely sent said it to family.
[00:09:33] But I would agree that like the, the first couple years do feel really rocky and I, I don't know if you can relate to this, but maybe you know that on some level. And so there's always kind of this, this weird parallel of like, well, is it supposed to be this rocky. You know, like is it supposed to be this hard on every level except the level where we get to [00:10:00] love each other and connect and do all those things?
[00:10:02] Like that feels really strong. That feels really great. It feels really right. But there's all of these, like outside circumstances and transitions that are happening at the exact same time. And it gets to feel really like, you might question it, you might say like, is it supposed to be this hard? Um, clearly y'all got through that and now you can come on someone else's podcast and say like, that was our foundation.
[00:10:28] I'm proud of it. Damn proud of it because the work that I put into it was so, so much. but I don't know. Did you ever feel that way? Did you ever feel like. Maybe this wasn't it, and you were just like trying to convince yourself that it was?
[00:10:43] Tonia Rivers: I think that I, I had those feelings before we got married. I had those feelings, um, when we were getting to that point because again, I had so much baggage and it, it bled over, you know?
[00:10:57] Yeah. Just because of the things that I had gone through [00:11:00] and then, yeah. You watch tv cuz I didn't really see a lot of that, you know, like a, a solid household with the, the married parents and things like that. So I didn't really know a lot about it. I mean, I had, uh, aunt and uncle that I was very close with and I saw them, but as a child even pretty much as like a teen or like a, a early adult, I don't think I really saw them.
[00:11:23] and really knew hand on hand all of the things that they went through. So when it w when it came time for us to go through them, you're right. I was like, what in the world? Like it? It can't be this hard.
[00:11:37] I think that my husband's background in the military and the fact that they have to adjust to any situation, willed him to hang in there and to talk me into it too. Cuz I'm just, my personality is like, you know what, Hey, I'm outta here. , like , you know, it like, it can't be this hard. And we just kind of said, he said, you know what?
[00:11:56] No, we can adjust to anything. When somebody else can do it, we can do it. And [00:12:00] that's his, that's his saying. And that's how we kind of live. Knowing that if someone else has gotten past a situation or a circumstance, because we've had everything in our own personal lives, even before we met each other, that was thrown at us, that we had gotten over.
[00:12:12] It was like, oh, I'm gonna let this defeat me too? you know, because at the base of it, like you said, is the love.
[00:12:19] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Tonia Rivers: So once you remember that and you can try to find your way back there, then I think that helps you get over those hard times. Yeah.
[00:12:29] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Well, and I was pretty, you know, similar to you and that I did not think that I was gonna date anybody in the military and had already done that several years prior.
[00:12:38] And I was like, no, never doing that again. Uhuh, and then, Uh, when it happened, when things were so hard, and we don't know what we're doing cuz we're like assimilating to military life and they've already been doing this for a while. It's a huge learning curve. You feel like you're kind of playing catch up.
[00:12:59] Um, I [00:13:00] don't know if you can relate to that. Like, it, it feels like there's always so much more to learn and so much more to know about this lifestyle. And because of the nature of the lifestyle, it just gets thrown at you. There's no break. Like it's just over and over and over again.
[00:13:16] Tonia Rivers: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:16] Jayla Rae Ardelean: um, you all, you kind of also use that as evidence.
[00:13:21] You're like, yeah, I really didn't think I was gonna meet anyone in the military, but like, isn't he freaking wonderful? Mm-hmm. , like, I was not expecting that. You know? And it kind of, um, I don't know. It kind of strengthens it in a way too. It kind of proves that like, I'm falling in love with the person. I'm not, you know, don't love his job all the time, I'll be honest, but he's a good human. Like he's a great person. He's a good father, he's a good stepfather. Like, you know, those kinds of things, uh, um, carry a lot of weight when you are struggling.
[00:13:59] Tonia Rivers: They do. [00:14:00] They do. They definitely do. And, and I'll tell you also that, you know, um, this construction industry is, is, again, it's just tough.
[00:14:07] It's tough on, on women and it's definitely tough on moms. And so as a black woman in construction, I fought to get to places that I, you know, was in and I fought to get to the senior project manager. I worked hard. So now I meet this man who I love, and again, we're in this location for five years, so I'm spoiled.
[00:14:29] And then here comes these papers, what is this?
[00:14:33] Jayla Rae Ardelean: These illusive papers that you kept hearing about?
[00:14:37] Tonia Rivers: Yeah, exactly. Always heard about these papers. Here comes these papers. I'm seeing it. You gotta be here on this date and da da da da. So you have people that choose to be geographical bachelor's. and for my husband's career, we chose to, after we did this five years in in DC that right before Covid, [00:15:00] he was going to deploy and do a year away from us.
[00:15:03] That was a tough decision. It was a tough decision, but we just ran out of time. It was like, well, look, well, what we gonna do? We, he, you gotta give your answer. Do this year, I'll be okay. Get on a plane three months later, boom. Covid. That was the hardest year of my life because one Covid two, I have, we have now three children at that time.
[00:15:28] My my youngest was 18 months when he, he left. Um, and then I'm in construction, so I still had to work because these projects needed to be finished. And I've got these children who now need to be homeschooled and it was just a whirlwind and, um, through that experience. I said, you know what? If we can be with you, we're gonna be together.
[00:15:53] Because it was just, it was too tough. I mean, he was guilty. I mean, you know, all the things that people hear about with the children not [00:16:00] knowing you and you know, just being away. The children crying. I'm crying, you know, he's upset, one, worrying about us. And then we were in a like, like a 12 or 13 hour time difference.
[00:16:10] So when are we really having conversations? right. We would talk and we'd be quick. He's sleeping, I'm up, I'm sleeping, you know? . It was difficult. It was difficult to manage that and still run a household and be a family through FaceTime and not see him at all because it was Covid. And then think about this.
[00:16:28] Now he's in lockdown, wherever he is. . So I'm worried about him. I gotta get, you know, things to him, goods to him that he wasn't able to get because he couldn't go off the base for anything. And think about the depression. You're away from your family. You can't even have any type of leisure because you're in lockdown because of, you know, where we were.
[00:16:46] So it was a really, really tough and difficult situation. And so when we decided to stay together, what that meant for me though, was that I was giving up my career because there was no way that I was gonna stay and run [00:17:00] projects in that area, and I'm somewhere else. I did it for a little bit when we moved, but I realized at that point that I had to give up something that I'd worked so hard for, something that I love, something that was a part of me.
[00:17:11] That is a part of me. So it was difficult in that sense. Like you say, I always, I've done PO podcasts on this as well through military spouses that I've met that are in construction because I always say you can't help who you love. You know, I, I didn't ask for this. I didn't, people always say, well, you asked for it.
[00:17:27] No, I didn't I didn't ask for it. It came into my life and I took hold of it because I wanted to be happy and, and he is a wonderful, un wonderful human being. And my hus, my, my family will threaten me like, look, you bet not mess that up, , you know? So threatening me. Okay. Look, threatening me at least on a monthly basis, , cause they know my mouth.
[00:17:51] But again, it, it, it was not easy for me because now I've had to pivot into so many different [00:18:00] areas, to make sure that I maintain myself, I love construction, and then I can maintain for my family, be there for them, and also support my husband.
[00:18:10] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, it's a lot. It's a lot. Um, so before, uh, we kind of got into each other's orbit, which I think was through AMSE, right?
[00:18:21] Is that right? Yes. Yes. Um, plus AMSE. Uh, had you ever heard of a term like late career mil spouse before to describe like the category of us, which is basically we did not start when we were 18 or 19 and marry somebody who enlisted or maybe was going to R O T C or like, we didn't move up the ranks with them.
[00:18:45] We didn't do a lot of these like cornerstone military life experiences and they have a backlog of that before they met us.
[00:18:56] Tonia Rivers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:57] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So had you ever heard that term before? [00:19:00] And if not, like, how do you see that? helping other military spouses like us?
[00:19:10] Tonia Rivers: Hmm. No, I'd never heard of it, um, at all. And. , my view of a military spouse was also different too, because I had never, I never lived on base, so I never had that community, and I'll be honest with you, I never wanted that community because I'm like, look, I'm, you know, I, I've got my career, da, da, da.
[00:19:29] Because you hear all these things and, and you see things, right? And everybody's not the same. I thank God for an organization like AMSE because it did pres it. It brought a whole new community of women who are like, look, I'm supporting my husband, but I have my dreams too, and trying to hit the sky quickly so we're rallying around each other to build this community of people that are go-getters and can motivate one another and, and you know, the mentorship and everything like that.
[00:19:55] So I think that that term and other mil [00:20:00] military spouses like us, we can help one another because we recognize that we are here. And the fact that we can pull each other along through our experiences, you know, because there is a difference between someone who was basically like a child in what they call a military brat.
[00:20:20] But someone who, whose parents were in the military and then they married someone in the military and then, you know, 18, right outta high school, they marry someone and they, they've had like, you know, 10 to 15 years of experiencing this and someone who's kind of late in their spouse's career. And now you've gotta adjust and, and there is a thing about other spouses kind of looking down on you because you know you haven't experienced that lifestyle and you don't know all of these acronyms, you know, so you haven't been,
[00:20:50] Jayla Rae Ardelean: We don't know anything. Our timeline are actually very similar.
[00:20:53] Like I've been with my husband for seven years also.
[00:20:56] Tonia Rivers: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:56] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So we, it's funny cuz if we traced back [00:21:00] our timeline, I wonder if we, how much we would have in common because we came to this game so late, but how. unless we have in common with spouses who have been doing this for so long.
[00:21:14] Tonia Rivers: Right.
[00:21:15] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, and they have, you know, they have their own catalog of experiences, but I know what you mean.
[00:21:19] I've been around seasoned as they're known, seasoned spouses before, and I don't feel like I have anything in common with them because mm-hmm. , unfortunately, they view, they just view everything so differently. , in my opinion and usually it's the, the presence of a career that is very different and distinguishes us as well.
[00:21:45] And it's really to no fault of their own because it's depending on what their service member is doing, there wasn't time for them to have a career. They're literally holding the family together, during deployments and PCSs and TDYs and all of the other [00:22:00] damn acronyms, but like, , we had that established identity before we walked into this and it's, it's really difficult to let go of it or to make any compromises in that area and to, and to pivot and to say, okay, I guess I have to, cuz otherwise this isn't, , this isn't gonna work for either one of us, so
[00:22:28] Tonia Rivers: right? Right. And I think it gives us the ability to have that forward thinking. So I never wanted to be an entrepreneur.
[00:22:34] I was gonna be your best employee. And because of my circumstances as a military spouse who does have a career that she cares about, I said, no, I'm gonna start my own business because I can take this business with me. . And and it also changed the trajectory of my mission with my business because I'm doing something that I can do anywhere.
[00:22:53] Hopefully. I'm trying to get to like an e-learning, you know, um, so that I can be able to do these things virtually [00:23:00] and I can do it from anywhere. So if you're, if it's morning and it's evening where I am, I'll just stay up a little bit longer and get it done. I think that being coming into this game late, for lack of better words, allows us to the brain power to think a little bit harder and, and try to think about, Hmm. I mean, I stay up all night thinking like, how can I make money and support my husband and, you know, because I, I was established, you know? and, and still maintain myself. There's, there's something that I, I didn't hear until I started meeting, um, what do you call it?
[00:23:33] Is it the season, the season of military spouses. I had never thought about the amount of the depression and the, uh, the mental anguish that went along with someone who lived for someone else in the background of someone else. I can't even imagine. So it's given me a lot more respect for them. And then also for, you know, the ones that came late in the game because it's like, all right, well, we're [00:24:00] the movers and the shakers.
[00:24:01] It's like, we gotta figure out how we're gonna make it work for ourselves and our family. And that's, that's really our goal.
[00:24:06] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. That contrast feels so stark sometimes. You can see it clear as day, and you're right, it's, it's a little bit easier to come to come to. the benefits that we're experiencing, like as late career spouses and to see the benefits that seasoned spouses have. Mm-hmm. , um, and the literal trauma that they have experienced as a result of sometimes decades within this lifestyle. And then just the number of deployments alone. I mean, if we're talking decades, we're, we're also talking about Afghanistan, we're talking about Iraq, we're talking about some really heavy shit. So ?
[00:24:48] Tonia Rivers: Yes. Before the technology that we have now. Yes. I can't even imagine
[00:24:52] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I know. I mean, even just you saying that you guys had a long distance relationship for four months and you were able to do [00:25:00] that because the technology was there. His position, you know, allowed that. The location allowed that so many stars have to align in order to allow that.
[00:25:10] So it. Yeah. I can't imagine only receiving one email from your spouse per month for months on end. And it happens. It still happens today. It still happens. It's crazy.
[00:25:24] Tonia Rivers: Right? And they make it work.
[00:25:27] Jayla Rae Ardelean: They do. Yeah, they do.
[00:25:29] I usually end every interview by asking what permission you would like to extend to our listeners, whether that is in terms of essentially writing a permission slip hey, this is what I've struggled with. This is what's, okay. Let this go. Some kind. Some kind of little words of wisdom that you've already dropped here, but
[00:25:53] Tonia Rivers: Sure. I just will reiterate that you have the permission to be yourself and to love yourself and to chase yourself. [00:26:00] Because this is a race.
[00:26:01] It's about knowing what your goals are as well, and doing everything you have to do to making it work. Making the adjustments on both sides so that it's not just one sided, it's your husband, your or your spouse has to adjust. Your children have to adjust. Your job has to adjust and making yourself that priority so that you can tell everyone what you need to make that happen so that you can be happy because you can't be anything for anyone else if you don't make sure that you're good. So that's my permission slip. Take it. I'm signing it, I'm passing it out to everybody. Live with those words,
[00:26:38] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I love that so much. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and really sharing vulnerably about what it was like to be a single mom and starting a new relationship and.
[00:26:50] And now here you are,
[00:26:53] Tonia Rivers: thank you. I think this is great. Thank you for what you're doing because at the end of the day, we all need the support, so I appreciate you.
[00:26:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Thank you, [00:27:00] Tonia. I will see you around.
[00:27:03] Tonia Rivers: Yes, ma'am.
[00:27:04] Jayla Rae Ardelean: All right. Bye
[00:27:06] Tonia Rivers: bye.