How Being a Late Career Milspouse Affects Your Marriage
How Being a Late Career Milspouse Affects Your Marriage
Join me for a fun + candid conversation with Lindsay! As Late Career Milspouses, hear us bond over how we have pivoted our careers AND marriages countless times!
This is Episode #1 of a brand new series highlighting Late Career Milspouse stories + experiences ❤️.
Questions we cover:
Intro to how you and your husband met, and where you were at in life when y'all met
What are some particular challenges you've experienced as a Late Career Milspouse?
When we use this term "Late Career Milspouse", how do you see this helping other milspouses who may fall into this category?
How many career pivots have you had to make as someone with advanced degrees?
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Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh is a psychologist, Military Marriage Coach, and military spouse. She is passionate about helping military spouses improve their marriage so they have the marriage they truly desire and feel good in daily. She is the host of the Married to Military podcast and was named 2022 Armed Forces Insurance Naval Air Station North Island Military Spouse of the Year.
Find her on social:
@marriedtomilitary
Married to Military Facebook Group
Learn more:
www.lindsaycavanagh.com
Get access to Lindsay's free workbook here:
https://lindsaycavanagh.activehosted.com/f/13
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The Heart of a Milspouse Podcast is hosted by Jayla Rae Ardelean, Late Career Milspouse Mentor.
Let's chat! @mil.spouse
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Because I want to keep producing episodes for you, consider supporting the podcast below ❤️
TRANSCRIPT: How Being a Late Career Milspouse Affects Your Marriage + Career
[00:00:00] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the heart of a Milspouse podcast. Today, I am joined by a super special guest. Lindsay is here. Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh is a psychologist, military marriage, coach, and military spouse. She is passionate about helping military spouses improve their marriage. So they have the marriage they truly desire and feel good in daily. She is the host of the Married to military podcast and was named at 2022 armed forces, insurance Naval air station, north island, military spouse of the year. Hey Lindsay.
[00:00:34] Lindsay Cavanagh: Hey, that's a quite a handful. Isn't it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
[00:00:41] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Of course, I am super stoked to have you kicking our late career male spouse series, uh, when you and I, um, I don't, I mean, I guess we've been in the same circles for a while now, including AMSE. Um, but. From the little I knew [00:01:00] about you. I kind of put the pieces together that you fall into this category. So I'd love to spend some time diving into all of that.
[00:01:08] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And you know, where, where you were at when you met your now husband in life and, and what that
[00:01:15] Lindsay Cavanagh: looked like yeah. So it's a really, our story is a really interesting one. And we were from the same hometown. He went to a different high school than I did. He actually dated my best friend in high school for like three months.
[00:01:30] Lindsay Cavanagh: And I was the standard like good best friend. And I didn't like him. I thought he treated her poorly. I, you know, so her. and him stayed great friends. And I just had nothing to do with them. Our whole life. Fast forward, eight years, we were all home for Christmas. I was in graduate school at the time he had. I believe just finished flight school, commissioned all the things.
[00:01:55] Lindsay Cavanagh: And when it's in his very first command and we [00:02:00] got stuck in a corner booth and we started talking and, um, I actually, I was kind of interested in someone else. So that night, and I sort of say he kind of got in the way and I'm so glad he did, because now here we are 14 years later, a whole military career, um, behind us in front of us.
[00:02:22] Lindsay Cavanagh: And I really wouldn't have it another way, but yeah, I was in my, I want to say second year of graduate school. I got my PhD, so I did a little. School. I was in school for five years post-college and so he did, I, you know, we were long distance for the first two and a half years until I finished residency.
[00:02:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: And then, um, by then he was in his second command and I finally moved where he was, but yeah, I mean, both of our careers were really rolling and solidified when we started dating.
[00:02:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, my goodness. So [00:03:00] there's so much to unpack there, but first he wasn't even the guy that you were going to go after that night.
[00:03:08] Jayla Rae Ardelean: That's hilarious. Like, and the whole, like meet cute version of this story too, like become a romantic comedy classic.
[00:03:21] Lindsay Cavanagh: I was very single at this point, I was doing the app game. I was getting myself out there. And so it was interesting how it got to me where I was preferring to talk to this person on the phone at night, rather than go on dates with these new people or people that I was meeting. And that was really, I think what, okay.
[00:03:42] Lindsay Cavanagh: There's something here because it just, it would've been easier to date. In the, I mean, I was in Colorado, he was in Florida. We were not close at all. And, um, so in some ways we sort of credit that because it really showed us, we were drawn to each other, [00:04:00] despite all of the odds. Yes.
[00:04:02] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And just, I mean, the location odd absolutely being long distance is a whole experience in of itself.
[00:04:11] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, so when we talk about being a late career milspouse, like what are some of the particular challenges that you've experienced? Um, and you can, I don't know, take me back to like when your relationship first began and you knew nothing about what he did or his role, the acronyms, whatever, or any point in your journey.
[00:04:34] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, cause I know y'all have been together for quite some time by this point.
[00:04:38] Lindsay Cavanagh: Yeah. Well, so living. Where I was in Colorado. There wasn't a lot of military around now. I know there is a fair bit in Colorado Springs, but that is not where I was. Had very little idea what military life actually consisted of.
[00:04:55] Lindsay Cavanagh: And for me, I was really on my career [00:05:00] track. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was going to get my PhD. You get a post-doctorate job. You get right in. There was just a track. There was a way that this worked and sure enough, we finish our residency. I had been offered a couple of positions, but they were in Colorado.
[00:05:20] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so now all of a sudden I'm coming to this point where it's like, okay, I take this position that is a sure thing is people that know my work or I moved to California, which was where he was stationed at the time. And. Start all over. Literally try to figure this thing out and I chose to move and it ended up being a great thing, but I definitely had a lot more challenges than many of my classmates.
[00:05:52] Lindsay Cavanagh: Um, my career has taken beyond that and how very, very different twists and turns. Um, and, [00:06:00] and I'll be honest, like I really had to. Worked through some of the emotional stuff that came up for me as a result of those twists and turns. But back then, I just didn't know. I mean, I thought he's going to get out at 10 years and you know, so we only had a few years left.
[00:06:18] Lindsay Cavanagh: It was me fine. That's going to be my turn. And now we're at 17. Now he's saying, I want to try for 26. You know, it's just, it's, it's, it's been such a learning curve on both sides. I think.
[00:06:30] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You just said 26 and I'm like, oh my gosh, he's a lifer.
[00:06:38] Lindsay Cavanagh: I didn't know that. And I don't know if he even knew that, right.
[00:06:41] Lindsay Cavanagh: It's one of those things that everyone's like, oh, well, you know what you're getting into, but the reality is you don't. And I don't know even them who signed the dotted line. I don't think they actually know. What it's going to actually translate into. So how, if they don't know, how are we going to know what, what it's actually going to look like?[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Jayla Rae Ardelean: It's so true.
[00:07:00] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And you just detailed your own twist and turns, but like how would we not expect that they would have their own twists and turns within their career as well? I mean, they change, they change their role. Sometimes they go on training tracks to like, just there's so much that could happen. And just deciding how many years am I going to be in?
[00:07:22] Jayla Rae Ardelean: How am I, how long am I going to do this for like, how many ranks am I actually incurring in this amount of time? Because yeah, I can tell you that goes, that's a conversation we've had too where I'm like, Nope, 20 and done. Yeah. I'm by the time you reached 20, I will have done a, I don't like nine or is that right?
[00:07:44] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Like nine or 10 years? Yeah, because I met him when. Beginning his 11th year of his career. Did I do the math? Right. Who knows? Um, but yeah, I'm like a very much 20 and done type of spouse and he's like, [00:08:00] yeah, but the money,
[00:08:01] Lindsay Cavanagh: well, that's the thing is they start to dangle, right? It's like every point that they can get out, or at least that's been the case with my husband, every point that he could offshoot and get out of the military, they dangle something and when he can get, so he has to do a little bit beyond 20, just because he had gotten his graduate degree in, there's just a few things. Um, so he has to do like 21 and a half, just how orders line up. And right then of course they dangle something big and, and it's hard to not want.
[00:08:34] Lindsay Cavanagh: Go for it. And I get that. So we have these conversations a lot too, cause I, we are staring down three deployments over the next two and a half years. And. That is it for me? Right? Like, I'm like, I'm done after this.
[00:08:52] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You're going to be so done.
[00:08:55] Lindsay Cavanagh: But then he's like, well, what if we get something? And that's always the hard part too.
[00:08:59] Lindsay Cavanagh: Like, we don't know [00:09:00] what we're going to get next. And that's like, what could be something great. But then the one after that is really hard. And so it's just a really is like a balancing. And they don't know just as much as we don't know.
[00:09:10] Lindsay Cavanagh: Right. And the dangling that you're speaking to, I don't know that I hear a lot of people talk about this because the, um, the transition out of the military conversation that happens in, uh, I mean, all households, but especially like the late career mil spouse household of like, uh, I, I knew that when I met you, you had a ways to go that part, I knew.
[00:09:36] Lindsay Cavanagh: But if you're talking about extending past my original idea and scope and mentality toward military life, and you're talking about going beyond that, like it is a huge mindset shift to then overcome or. Uh, pushed back on. Cause I still, I still pushed back on this. I mean, we're about to do a [00:10:00] three-year assignment in Italy and technically that is 20, uh, by the time he finishes and.
[00:10:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: Transitioning out of the military through an overseas assignment is not ideal.
[00:10:13] Lindsay Cavanagh: I was just gonna say, has that come up? Cause that was my first thought when you said it, logistics of it. Right?
[00:10:20] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So what if we got, um, one more, one more position state side, and then that would allow an easier transition out of the military, which I totally understand.
[00:10:30] Jayla Rae Ardelean: But the other dangle moment that he's talking about is what if they extend us? What if they send us somewhere else in Europe? We've always talked about living overseas. That's something that we want to do together too, which I retort and I say, we can do that with, or without the military. We don't need a military installation in order to live.
[00:10:52] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Overseas, but because this has been his, his livelihood, his identity, and it's it's, it [00:11:00] is what has afforded him every opportunity in his life, since his career began, it is so hard for him to see. Beyond that scope. So it's caused a lot of, um, contention like in these conversations together because I see it.
[00:11:17] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I'm clearly seeing it one way and he's seeing it another way. And the reason I bring this up is because, hi, you are a military marriage coach.
[00:11:26] Lindsay Cavanagh: So a little something about this stuff. We have the same. I mean, literally just this weekend, we had an hour ago. Sort of road trip, and this is what we talked about the entire hour and a half.
[00:11:42] Lindsay Cavanagh: One thing that I tell my clients all the time. And one thing that I really have to think in my own marriage is they get a lot of this at work where somebody is sitting down and having them look at their career trajectory. There's a lot of information about how this is how you are secure financially. I mean, they [00:12:00] really do a lot of this.
[00:12:02] Lindsay Cavanagh: They call it. You know, it's not what I, my psychologist version of counseling, but it's just, when they're talking about this stuff and they get it a lot, our active duty service members. And if we, as the military spouse, if we're not interjecting. Our position on this, our family's position, what we also want.
[00:12:23] Lindsay Cavanagh: That's a whole side that they're missing and we have to just remember that they are getting day in and day out. Here's what's best for you. Here's what's best for your career. This is why you want to do this. And not one part of that includes us. And that's not because the military doesn't care, it's just, they don't do that.
[00:12:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so we have to make sure that we are having those conversations. And one thing that came up for us was look, I get that. You want that, that when that carrot gets dangled, you want to see, you want to go for it. Like I get it. But you also have to remember that there [00:13:00] has been a lot of carrots that I have turned down.
[00:13:03] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so it's gotta be something really, really great because I'm ready. I'm ready. I start gathering my carrots. And at some point that's what we're going to have to weigh that. Right.
[00:13:14] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So true. Like, so when we talk about your own career, um, how many, I would love to know like how many pivots you've experienced as a result of military life, because as somebody with advanced degrees and a fully formed identity, like in inside of your career, but just as an individual, as a human prior to meeting.
[00:13:42] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Your now husband. Um, that is a whole, that's a whole, like, that's a whole topic that I would really love to dive into because it's different when it's different. When a spouse has not advanced their career. And. Chosen to [00:14:00] go to school in order to advance that career, but then talks about going back to school at one point or another in their military life experience.
[00:14:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: That's totally different than coming into military life with these advanced degrees and wondering what the heck am I going to be able
[00:14:17] Lindsay Cavanagh: to do with. Yeah. Cause I think that in some ways that he's getting this at work, that's what I was getting throughout the whole time I was getting my PhD is that you, I was getting my mentors and teachers and all of those things sitting down and being like, this is what a career as a psychologist looks like.
[00:14:35] Lindsay Cavanagh: Exactly, you know, point a point B like here's how you get there. And so what I realized again, early in when all of my classmates were sort of staying where they did their residency and, you know, taking what would have been my path had I not met my spouse. Um, and, and so really seeing how. Different. It [00:15:00] has been for me.
[00:15:00] Lindsay Cavanagh: Cause I do have these comparisons. I have so many friends who are still in that same first job. Right. And they've advanced up. They are now leaders. They're doing all this thing. And for a while there, what I was finding, I was quitting and starting over. Every two and a half years, we have been that family that cannot stay somewhere best two and a half years, no matter how much we try.
[00:15:26] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so I really was, I was quitting. I was starting over. I was having to get relicensed in new states. I was having to do all this hurdle and I got to be where I was ready to have more of a leadership role. I was ready to just, you know, what, what the track that I had been laid out and told that this is how it works.
[00:15:50] Lindsay Cavanagh: Um, and I wasn't getting any of those positions because I was never working somewhere long enough. And it was like, right when I was ready for a promotion, we were PCs sitting somewhere [00:16:00] else. And so. I think that really, I went down to dark place first. I will be completely honest. I was in a spot. Um, it was particularly, we were in Portugal and I was not able to work there at all the visa that we are being given.
[00:16:17] Lindsay Cavanagh: It just isn't. It isn't feasible. And so I, and we were also in COVID, so that probably didn't help as well, but I was really resentful. I was just, I, I have so much respect. I call it full-time parents stay at home moms, dads who, whatever you want to call it, but I am not meant. To do that. I am not good at it.
[00:16:41] Lindsay Cavanagh: I don't enjoy it. Um, I, again, I have full respect for everyone who does it and it was not for me. And I was really resentful and I was really unhappy. And of course that was leaking out towards my spouse. Of course it was leaking out, turns my family. And, and that was really where I [00:17:00] said, okay, this I've got to find a way to make this work because we're not leaving the military now.
[00:17:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: And now we're even have a harder situation. What can I do? How can I make this work for me? And so I've had to get really, really creative and figuring out how to do that. And it really has meant forging my own path and getting off what everyone taught me. And it's. Now that I've done it, I'm really, really happy that I have.
[00:17:29] Lindsay Cavanagh: But man, to get from there to here was really tough to just get my mindset around that and to open myself up to what even the new possibilities are.
[00:17:40] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Well, and I think part of why it's so hard to see what those new possibilities are is because you were being, you were being fed, attract and a system prior to that.
[00:17:51] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And so then taking your own. Autonomy in that situation and saying, oh, well now I have to redefine everything. This is up [00:18:00] to me. This is enough to anybody else. This is up to me. That can be, so that can be so scary to come to that realization. And, you know, immediately, like my mind would be going well, what if I do it wrong?
[00:18:12] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Like, what if I do it wrong? What if I don't do it in the best way? What if, what if, what if, what if, um, so I. I'm hearing the struggle that you are depicting here. And the reason I think it's so important that we. Talk about those moments and those periods in our life where things were darker. And we were probably experiencing situational depression and our decision-making skills were probably a lot like lower and less quality than what they would be normally.
[00:18:45] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, it's important to me that we talk about those times because the spouses that we have in our networks and, and you know, who, uh, We connect with online and who connect with like on your [00:19:00] podcast, for example, and on my podcast, like they need to hear that because they may be currently going through that right now and wondering what is wrong with me?
[00:19:09] Jayla Rae Ardelean: What's, what's wrong with me that I can't get it together because all these other spouses seem to know exactly what they're doing and they figured out the formula and there isn't a one formula.
[00:19:23] Lindsay Cavanagh: Well, and I will say, I, I have the pleasure of, I mean, I've, I've worked with hundreds of military couples spouses at this point, and it is one of the top things that I hear from, from late career male spouses, but really all male spouses is they come to me and they say something along the lines of like, I don't feel like a priority.
[00:19:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: I don't feel like my. Identity my dreams. My life is important and that really affects them, which didn't really affects their marriage. It affects right parenting. It affects so many other aspects of life. And so often what I'm doing [00:20:00] when I'm working with marriages is also helping the military spouse really navigate this journey as well, because.
[00:20:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: You're right. And, and normalizing it, normalizing that. It's it doesn't say anything about you. Cause I get that a lot too. Am I just not meant for this military life? No, it's hard. It's hard on every single person. I don't know. One person that comes in and says, yeah, I rock it this all the time. Um, but finding ways that you can navigate through it and also to have your spouse support you with that too.
[00:20:36] Lindsay Cavanagh: Me obviously just taking it out on my spouse. It wasn't doing either of us any favors. Like he was feeling really guilty cause he couldn't change the situation. He didn't know how to make me feel better. It didn't make me feel better that now he was feeling bad. It just was a rough situation overall. And when I found how I needed him to support me and how he could really do that.
[00:20:59] Lindsay Cavanagh: It [00:21:00] made the biggest difference for us cause he wanted to, he's always wanted to support me. He wants me to be happy. And I think sometimes when we're in the middle of that dark place, we forget it. Cause it's like, well, you're getting what you want. You're you're doing your career. But the reality is, is again they're they don't have control either.
[00:21:19] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so I think just, um, when we were able to get on the same team and on the same page about it, it made everything. Easier. It made it easier for me to take those turns. It made it easier for me to take the leap into something else. It just, and he felt a lot better. Cause now he knew how to do that and what he needed to do to do that.
[00:21:41] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So basically you had to tell him, I
[00:21:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: had to tell him.
[00:21:46] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You had to define it for yourself first. Like this is need support. This is how I need him to show up for me in this way, and then communicate that.
[00:21:54] Lindsay Cavanagh: Yes. And yes, we can
[00:21:56] Jayla Rae Ardelean: get something. We kind of hovered over in our con in our [00:22:00] conversation on your podcast, because.
[00:22:02] Jayla Rae Ardelean: We don't want to have to tell somebody, like we want them to know it or to figure it out on their own, based on the current circumstance. And unfortunately, that's just not reality in a marriage. And we're like, I wish he could just know. And I don't have to tell him it's that moment of it's self-advocacy it's it's taking a moment to say, this is what I truly need, and this is how.
[00:22:31] Jayla Rae Ardelean: You can show up for me in this way. And it feels at least to me. And I know that my personality type is definitely filtering this portion of the conversation, but at least to me, it doesn't feel authentic anymore to have to say what it is that you need.
[00:22:47] Lindsay Cavanagh: Does that make sense? Yeah, it feels contrived almost.
[00:22:51] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And yet it is the thing that gets both of you over that hump together, but there's so much [00:23:00] resistance in that moment for me. Um, so I wondered if, if more spouses have shared that. That part's really
[00:23:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: tough. It is one of the things I get the pushback from the most where they say, I don't want to do that.
[00:23:13] Lindsay Cavanagh: Like again, that he should just know that this is what I need. And the reality is, is even research shows this, you look at couples who have been together 20 plus years, and we as humans are really, really. Poor at guessing or what somebody else needs. And we are just really bad at doing that. Even couples who've been together a really long time.
[00:23:36] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so recognizing that it's not that they don't want to. It's just that they don't know how. And so I find that again, it's like that little work initially to kind of share. Now you also have to be open to what they say. Because just cause this is exactly what I want. It also has to be something that he can do and he can meet.
[00:23:58] Lindsay Cavanagh: And what I mean is he [00:24:00] has to have the ability, he has to know how to do that. He has to write and it's changing a pattern. And so just because it's some, cause I hear this a lot too where okay, I've asked for it and now he won't give it to me. Does that mean he just doesn't care and usually there's, there's something that's getting in the way, whereas they, again, they don't have.
[00:24:20] Lindsay Cavanagh: Ability or they haven't learned how to do that or they, you know, there's, there's something else still going on. So recognizing that, yes, we have to advocate for ourselves. Do you have, if you want something, you have to say it out loud. It's just a required and you have to be open to. They feel about it, what they say about it, what they need about it.
[00:24:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: They may need some coaching in it to try to help them get to that point. It might not be as smooth as right off the bat. You start to get it, but it is what makes the difference in the long run every single time.
[00:24:58] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Oh, I love that. So [00:25:00] many juicy, do you see nuggets here? Uh, when it comes to. When it comes to your own career and needing to make those P those pivots, and, you know, you talk a lot about like needing to relicense yourself, for example, in different states and things.
[00:25:16] Jayla Rae Ardelean: How has your long-term idea for your career really changed? Like what, how do you envision this now? And how does obviously being a military marriage coach, like fit into that? Um, and then that process for re-imagining where you're headed and where you're going. I wonder if you can share a little bit more about that too, because just like them experiencing their own twists and turns and pivots in their careers, even if we are re-imagining things for ourselves, like there still needs to be some level of flexibility as well that like, like I've, I've done the re-imagining process.
[00:25:54] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I'm on a new track this week. More exciting. This feels aligned. This feels like a [00:26:00] possibility, but we still encounter
[00:26:04] Lindsay Cavanagh: challenges. Yeah. They, they never go away. I think that for me, this psychology field is also very rigid. You have to be licensed in the state that you're in which, um, they are working to help military spouses to have kind of reciprocity across licensures, but it's.
[00:26:25] Lindsay Cavanagh: Foolproof plan yet. Um, and, and I was just finding that I was getting sort of burned out working these entry level jobs and, and not really getting anywhere else. Yes. I've got to work in a lot of different places with a lot of different people. My skills, I think are much stronger as a result of it. And I was starting to get burned out because I just, I wasn't getting the continuity that I was looking for to.
[00:26:56] Lindsay Cavanagh: And so really what that showed me was I may need [00:27:00] to exit the actual psychologist track. And that was a big deal to say, because it just was, it was what I was going to do. There was just like he was going to be a pilot in the military. I was going to be a psychologist and now. I'm a coach. Like I don't even, I don't like, is that, what is that?
[00:27:22] Lindsay Cavanagh: Is that okay? Is it so there was a lot of, um, emotional mindset that I had to work on to kind of figure out, but what it sort of led me to is. It's online. So I get to be as flexible as I need. And I also get to be as flexible as the military spouses need and I was running into, cause again, I was working for the military, so I was still seeing military families and we had so many issues with scheduling, right?
[00:27:55] Lindsay Cavanagh: So either the active duty service member was gone. Or, [00:28:00] you know, just stuff would come up, they would move, I would move. And I got kind of sick of that too, where I'm like, of course people are having issues because they can never actually get the help they need because of all these outside barriers. And so what I've sort of found is that being able to transition into this coaching is I am able to eliminate so many of those barriers.
[00:28:21] Lindsay Cavanagh: I don't have to be, you know, work with people in a particular state. I don't have to. You know, be on a certain time line. I've worked with all time zones at all. I've worked every day of the week. You know, we just figure out what works. And I also liked that. I just worked sometimes with the military spouses only because you can change a marriage with just one person.
[00:28:46] Lindsay Cavanagh: I never want there to be a barrier. I never want there to be a reason that somebody can't have what they want in their marriage. And so I will, I now have the ability to work around that and [00:29:00] it's great. And it's lovely. And I get to say, you know, the other day my daughter was home for school and I just had a call.
[00:29:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: She would pop in from time to time. We made it work and it's just, you know, they have those kinds of things too. And I get to kind of show that it's still okay. And you still get to prioritize yourself even when that happens. So it's been a really wonderful thing that I don't think I ever would have got to without the military creating all these barriers, but to get there was kind of a mountain to climb for sure.
[00:29:34] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. And it's, I mean, it does feel like you're being. Kind of backed into a corner in a way, but then like build a nest in that corner. I don't know, whatever, whatever analogy you want to bring in, but it's you're right. It's the. You know, that there are so many barriers impact, like impeding the progress.
[00:29:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: [00:30:00] And it's about working around those barriers and trying to eliminate as many as possible. And I think it's totally true that military life, um, necessitates that process. But it's also skill building in a lot of ways to be able to do that after military, um, which is something that. I don't hear a lot of spouses, like talk about necessarily like all of the skills that you're building inside of this lifestyle will then become useful later because at the time they're just challenges and they're hard things and you're getting through them.
[00:30:40] Jayla Rae Ardelean: But you're really like you're working all of your muscles
[00:30:44] Lindsay Cavanagh: in that. Yeah. And I think that like, at the end of the day, I think I'm way better for it, but you're right. I have had to work harder than say any of the people I went to graduate school with to get sort of the career in [00:31:00] the situation that I've wanted.
[00:31:01] Lindsay Cavanagh: And that's not to say that I'm better than them or they're better. Right. It's not, it's not anything like that, but just looking at really what it's taken. Yeah. And knowing that. I ultimately am better because of it. Now. I love working on this stuff with people, because for me, I look at it as like a top down approach.
[00:31:20] Lindsay Cavanagh: I look at it as figure out what you want first without any of the barriers. And that's sort of what I said. I knew I wanted to help people and I knew I wanted to help military spouses. And then I started to look, okay, what is the barriers? Is the military put in place? What, what barriers does psychology as a whole.
[00:31:38] Lindsay Cavanagh: Look, you know, put in place and now how do I navigate around them? We're so often we start at the bottom and we're looking up at all these barriers saying, how the heck am I going to get to this top goal? Um, and it really does. It seems impossible. So I really take like a top down approach and I find that it's much easier to get [00:32:00] there when we do it that way.
[00:32:02] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah. And so going back to, you know, this. The construct of like the psychology world and like, you know, specific tracks and things. Um, you did, I think you said you met during grad school, so. In your mind before you entered military life, like who was it that you wanted to work with? Cause I can't imagine it was military spouses.
[00:32:29] Jayla Rae Ardelean: There had to be a shift somewhere along the way to again, support the community that you became a part of and to support that piece of your identity. Um, for, you know, for this community, do you know what I mean?
[00:32:42] Lindsay Cavanagh: Yeah, that's a good point. So when I first entered grad school, I wanted to help with, um, addictions.
[00:32:48] Lindsay Cavanagh: That was really what I wanted to do. And it's funny that you see that now, because, and then I really moved into health psychology. I was working in medical [00:33:00] clinics and really sort of meeting people. You know, in their physical health journey and adding on that psychological health to it. And so that's sort of where I was doing by the end of grad school and I was really into it and I really enjoyed it.
[00:33:16] Lindsay Cavanagh: And then again, now I'm, I'm quitting and starting over. So then I worked with kids and then I worked with PTSD and then. So it wasn't even that I was always seeking out these particular niches. It's just that got to be, I just needed a job whenever we would move. Um, and I think that the reason why I gravitated towards military spouses is because, right, we speak the same language.
[00:33:42] Lindsay Cavanagh: They speak mine and I can speak theirs and it really makes sense. And you're right. Just what I have wanted to do and who I've wanted to work with has really changed because of. All of these experiences. Yeah. And
[00:33:56] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I think this is, this is a pattern that I'm [00:34:00] noticing with military spouses in general. But if we focus in on late career male spouses in particular, we've because we've had to make so many career pivots and to redefine what success looks like to us and to our.
[00:34:15] Jayla Rae Ardelean: To that piece of our identity, that absolutely needs to be fulfilled, or we are resentful, unhappy and taking it out on everyone around us, um, that we actually move into supporting military spouses. Um, like at, uh, I wouldn't say at a higher rate necessarily. It's just a pattern that I'm noticing. Okay. It makes a lot of sense to make that shift, um, in terms of the niche that we would like to support.
[00:34:49] Jayla Rae Ardelean: But I, I will be honest that there are times when I'm on Instagram, for example, and I'm like, Every military spouse has become a coach.[00:35:00]
[00:35:01] Jayla Rae Ardelean: What is happening here? Right? And if I'm not careful that mindset also just kind of caves in on itself. And it turns into, we're all competing with each other. Yeah, because we all want to support other military spouses. Sure. We may have different mobile modalities that we're using. Like clearly your lane is military marriages.
[00:35:21] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Right. And I want my lane to be the Enneagram within the personal development umbrella. Um, hi, there's a lot of competition out there for that kind of thing. And you know, it's, it's true in what you say that. We speak the same language. So it makes sense that we make that shift at some point to only focus on military spouses and to strengthen our community, like our community, the military community, because we see such a need for it.
[00:35:54] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So sometimes if I'm not careful, I start to get in this competitive mindset and then I kind of have to pull [00:36:00] back and I have to remind myself like these spouses are doing with what. They have, like, they are taking their career into their own hands. And this just makes the most sense. So I wondered if you've ever experienced that too.
[00:36:19] Lindsay Cavanagh: Yeah. I'm actually really glad that you brought that up because it is something that I like to speak openly about. Um, I even have little. Other military marriage coaches on my podcast and I do it purposefully. And somebody asked me one time, why didn't you do that? Like, aren't they, your competition? Like, don't, you need to be worried about it.
[00:36:41] Lindsay Cavanagh: And really what I feel when it comes to the entire military spouse community is when one of us rises, we all rise and there are. Humans for all of us to be successful, to be fulfilled, to do what we need to do. And that is sort of my way of [00:37:00] combating that competitiveness, competitiveness that can come up because I really think that the more we can support each other, the better off we all are.
[00:37:11] Lindsay Cavanagh: And it's just natural, I think, to, for your brain to go there. But it is something I also. Instantly, constantly battling, um, knowing that I, I mean, I could turn to all marriages. I don't necessarily want to, right. You could find a different population and you, I think what it is is just knowing, like we just all have to support each other and we are doing it the best way that we know how, and I.
[00:37:40] Lindsay Cavanagh: Do not think that it has to be one person wins and the other person loses. I genuinely truly believe that we can all rise up together if we do it right. And support each other.
[00:37:53] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Amazing. Thank you for reminding everybody of that. Cause I, I wanted to figure out a way to talk about that more [00:38:00] without, uh, making it sound like we are terrible humans falling into like those, those mental traps of.
[00:38:08] Jayla Rae Ardelean: This space can feel really small sometimes. I mean, we all, at some point we all kind of know the same people and, and, you know, we understand like the lane at which everybody is trying to assume. Their own autonomy within. And so it gets kind of, sometimes it can feel a little claustrophobic. It can feel like a little bit small.
[00:38:32] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, but if anybody is currently experiencing that, just rewind what Lindsey just said, because that's an amazing reminder that like we're all here to support one another and it's not, it's not about the competition. It's about, um, Extending the support where you can and understanding that people will need spouses will need different kinds of support at different points in their military life journey.
[00:38:59] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Like [00:39:00] right now may not be a time in which they need to. Uh, hire a military marriage coach that could change a year from now, you know, and it, you know, and the same for me, like, you know, a spouse maybe in the middle of just a huge crap storm when it comes to the military and assuming, um, a level of like personal development coaching feels like a hurdle.
[00:39:26] Jayla Rae Ardelean: It doesn't feel like. Um, a positive thing or like a need, it just feels like one more thing,
[00:39:32] Lindsay Cavanagh: you know? Yeah, absolutely. Well, and my, my husband actually helped me with this the most too, is he looked up the exact statistics and now I'm going to butcher them, but I feel like there's anywhere between 500. A thousand and a million military spouses.
[00:39:49] Lindsay Cavanagh: If you look at all of the branches across the United States, if you look at international branches, you're talking about a million military spouses out there doing what [00:40:00] we are doing. I can't help a million people. Right. Like I only have enough diamond a day for so many. And that was also where it was easy to say, like, I don't need to help every single person and not every single person is going to connect with me, but not my connect with somebody else.
[00:40:18] Lindsay Cavanagh: And the reality is, is I do want every single one of those 1 million military spouses to have what they need and feel what they need to feel and whatever that may be. And so I think that that was also a great way for me to sort of step out of it, of the kind of competition. Um, and you're absolutely right.
[00:40:40] Lindsay Cavanagh: That people are going to need different things at different times. And I want them to know where those resources are. Right. Because so often I think it's, you know, we don't know and people don't know. And so I want, I think that I want everyone to have that resource when they [00:41:00] do need it and you don't have to dig and you don't have to, you know, try to figure it out when you are in that dark place.
[00:41:05] Lindsay Cavanagh: Like you were talking about.
[00:41:07] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Right. And I think so much of what so much of how we had hoped to handle our careers. Like, it's very clear that you also have like a leadership mindset. Like you wanted to be in the top of your space when it came to like the psychology realm of things, and you were frustrated by needing to take entry-level jobs and never getting the opportunity to move beyond that because.
[00:41:32] Jayla Rae Ardelean: PCs would come through. Orders would come through and then you'd have to start all over again. So I think what I'm realizing in this conversation is that we take that same mentality toward our now, um, re-imagined career for ourselves. And we do want to be at the top. We want to be leaders in this space, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a leader and an upholding that same.[00:42:00]
[00:42:00] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Um, that same piece of your identity that you would have otherwise done in your previous career. Does that, because
[00:42:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: that, yeah, I think that's, I think that it's great. And I think that it's recognizing also like when I can be a leader, cause before I wasn't able to, and that wasn't. Unmet identity that I had, but also knowing when it's okay for me to sit back and be, you know, I don't like the word follower necessarily, but just be in the crowd and soak in what I need to soak in so that I can then be a better leader.
[00:42:33] Lindsay Cavanagh: And I feel like military spouse life has really taught me that like not being able to be the leader all the time has really shown me the value of. You know, sometimes you just need to sit back and listen and let other people lead. And so again, I credit a lot of this from military life. I don't think I would have gotten here otherwise.
[00:42:54] Lindsay Cavanagh: And I think I'm happier because of it. And that doesn't mean that there still aren't [00:43:00] challenges. That doesn't mean that, you know, I still don't question or doubt or, you know, any of those things that normal people do. It's just, excuse me, it's just, I know that I'm on the path that I need to be on and I just sort of trust in that.
[00:43:17] Jayla Rae Ardelean: So when it comes to this path, like if we want to think about the career path that we were on, that knee then needed to shift, um, and then entering military life has, is its own fully formed path in of itself. And so we're kind of just like converging, like converging all of these pathways together. It's really easy to think.
[00:43:38] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Well, at least for me, I'll speak for myself. It's really easy to think. What if I hadn't have taken this path? Like, what if I had met my spouse and I had turned him down? What if like I did not swipe the right way on Tinder or like, I didn't, this never happened. Like what would have happened in my life and my career had that not gone through, had we [00:44:00] not gone ahead with this relationship?
[00:44:02] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And I can't imagine. Yeah. So then that brings me back to the fact that this was always my path. This was always a place that I was headed. Uh, but it's doesn't mean that there weren't like tough pills to swallow along the way. And it doesn't mean that there aren't challenges associated with that. So I, I hope that for other late career male spouses who are.
[00:44:27] Jayla Rae Ardelean: In this position of needing to pivot, uh, over and over again, when it comes to their careers specifically that clearly this is happening for some sort of reason, and it doesn't need to be like, you don't need to like inflict, you know, your own belief system on that, you know, when it comes to, um, I don't know.
[00:44:50] Jayla Rae Ardelean: I just think things happen for like, some things happen for a reason, you know? Like I don't need to know what the reason is that they're happening.
[00:44:56] Lindsay Cavanagh: Yeah. And I think that there w I think it's important to remember that there would have been [00:45:00] challenges had the. You know what I mean? I think that it's easy to think, or it's easy to see again, my friends in there, their job that they took right out of residency and they are, you know, still, they never had to even switch jobs, but they have their own challenges and they have their own.
[00:45:20] Lindsay Cavanagh: You know, issues associated with it. And I think it's really important to remember and you're right. Like I look at mine and I would have never lived in Portugal. I would have never lived in Hawaii. I would never had where PCs into to Japan soon. Like these are experiences I know, without a doubt I never, ever, ever would have experienced.
[00:45:40] Lindsay Cavanagh: So, so glad that I have, and I, I really valued them and feel that they have made me who I am. And so just kind of, like you said, I think it's important to remember that there is no easy or hard way. I have to make the best of whatever our situation [00:46:00] is. And I think what's helped me is finding those military spouses who have made it work, finding those other late career male spouses who have pivoted in a way that they are still.
[00:46:12] Lindsay Cavanagh: You know, feeding their identity and they're still making those degrees work and they're still doing all of the things. Um, that's who I focus on versus the ones that are, you know, oh, you can't do it. You're not getting, you know, and those are out there. You hear that. But to me, there are way more people that have figured it out and are so creative and that's who I surround myself with because that's who I want to be.
[00:46:40] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah, that's the energy that you want to be surrounded by. Cause cause then when you do experience those tough days, it's that group of people. Um, and it's those spouses in particular that are going to cheer you on and to say. This sucks. Keep going. Like it it's all gonna work out. Everything is going to be fine and it [00:47:00] may not be, it may not be what you imagined, but it could be better than
[00:47:04] Lindsay Cavanagh: what imagined.
[00:47:06] Lindsay Cavanagh: Oh, I feel like we need to say that again. It may not be what you imagined, but it may be better than what you imagined because I needed to hear that when I was in the depths of my resentment. That's what I needed to hear over and over and over again. So if anything, like, listen to that sentence on repeat over and over again, because.
[00:47:28] Lindsay Cavanagh: 100% true. I can speak it from just my own experience. And I know so many others that have as well. That's kind of also the beauty of being behind so many, like behind the scenes, so to speak, like I can't show you all these people, right. There's confidentiality. I can't show people like all the people that I know that have done.
[00:47:51] Lindsay Cavanagh: Um, unless they're out there really talking about it, but it's possible. And it doesn't, you don't have to be a certain person and you don't have to have a certain personality [00:48:00] type or traits or whatever. Like you can make this work. Um, it's just, it's just kind of figuring out exactly the path to get there.
[00:48:09] Lindsay Cavanagh: That's going to work best for you and getting support around that is always, I think, a useful thing.
[00:48:16] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I've really loved our conversation and I really appreciate you coming on this podcast when I know you have your own. Um, so we mentioned it before, but, um, Please, let everybody know where they can find you in terms of your own podcasts, where they can find you online.
[00:48:37] Jayla Rae Ardelean: And if you have anything that they can take
[00:48:39] Lindsay Cavanagh: advantage of today as well. Yeah. I love it. So I have a couple of things. First. You can find me on line at married to military. And my podcast is also married to military it's on all of the places that you can listen to podcasts. I am such a podcaster. So again, I'm like, if you, right, like we all have a [00:49:00] place in this podcasting world as well.
[00:49:02] Lindsay Cavanagh: Um, and then I have a free call, um, for anyone who's sort of just interested in working with me this way. You can get kind of a taste. We can decide if it is the next best step. Um, you know, really there's just no pressure here. Um, just to get an idea of where we could go and where, and I like to always give some tips.
[00:49:23] Lindsay Cavanagh: I really love working with military spouses. So it's hard for me to, to not sort of jump right in and get started. Um, and you can find that on my website at www dot Lindsey, kavanaugh.com, I'll make sure that, um, you get those so that you can link them up as well. And yeah, I have a deployment survival guide.
[00:49:43] Lindsay Cavanagh: That's coming out very soon. That will be sort of what is happening while I am on maternity leave. And so lots of great things coming from, from my side of the world here, including a brand [00:50:00] new baby, which right. And this isn't military life, like literally we having a baby and then my husband deploys and moves to Japan.
[00:50:07] Lindsay Cavanagh: Like. You know, like if that's not military spouse life, I don't know what it is. It feels right. Of course, this is how this would go.
[00:50:19] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Right. It's like, yep. That feels great.
[00:50:25] Jayla Rae Ardelean: Thanks for being here today, Lindsay, and for everyone listening, please continue tuning in because we have a lot of really exciting guests coming up on this series and I'll see you on.